NC House rejects lottery referendum

The News & Observer, ^ | Sept. 17, 2002 | GARY D. ROBERTSON

[Moby Grape]

Thanks for this post...These are the FACTS about the Founders that the left, the ACLU, the People for The American Way, democrats in general, Micheal on this thread, and socially soft conservatives either do NOT know, or pretend to not know. One more for the record, the author of the so-called "Separation of Church and State" portion of our Constitution (Ben Rush) said long after the creation of the great document, that if the Bible were ever removed from public schools there would be a 600% increase in crime and we would be building prisions to house the criminals. His first draft read, "Congress shall pass no law respecting a DENOMINATION....." Yet, with ALL this evidence, the liberals and the socially soft conservatives claim the Founders did not intend relgion to influence government....what silliness, what a lack of historical knowledge.

[csmusaret]

It is my understanding that a voter referendum is uconstitutional in NC.

[Moby Grape]

The Georgia Lottery had been in place for 10 years, their rating in education has not increased, no propterty taxes have been reduced, and the test scores have not risen...MONEY IS NOT THE ANSWER TO EDUCATION woes in this nation.

[Moby Grape]

Funny that facts to a social liberal are labeled a rant...

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Happy Birfday!!!

[Moby Grape]

Your argument that government becomes a nanny if the lottery is not allowed is off the mark...Should government put in place something that takes money from the poorest, teaching them to hold to hope of quick riches rather than saving and investing (which is what REALLY creates wealth)...does the NEA REALLY need more money to improve education?...NO, money is NOT the answer to the education problems in this country. I was in Georgia when the lottery started. I stood in line, seeing long lines of people, children wearing no shoes in tow, as they could drop 100 to 200 dollars on lottery tickets. This is ONE reason I oppose the lottery, the other is that the GOVERNMENT and EDUCATION don't NEED more money...they already squander what they take from us in tazes....an NO state that has the lottery has REDUCED propterty taxes as a result of getting the lottery.

[doosee]

The Georgia Lottery had been in place for 10 years, their rating in education has not increased, no propterty taxes have been reduced, and the test scores have not risen...MONEY IS NOT THE ANSWER TO EDUCATION woes in this nation.


A very recent study has confirmed that the true results of a lottery that increases instate scholarship money is that the smartest students are more prone to stay in state to get their education. This has a long range impact over many areas regarding attracting new business, economic development etc. I agree that giving more money to institutions is definitely not the answer, however, helping kids with direct scholarships is a major benefit to all concerned.

[Paleo Conservative]

Eventually people start to realize that they very unlikely to win the lottery, and they stop buying tickets. Revenues from the Texas lottery are down.

[southernnorthcarolina]

Here's a later N&O story:

NC House rejects lottery referendum

By AMY GARDNER, STAFF WRITER

The state House of Representatives resoundingly defeated a proposal Tuesday to seek the opinion of voters on launching a statewide lottery.

The measure, which would have set a Nov. 5 referendum on the issue, failed 69-50, a far greater margin than expected even among those who predicted defeat.

Gov. Mike Easley has pushed the lottery to pay for his education agenda; Tuesday's vote delivers the first major defeat of his administration.

"Children are only 4 once," said Easley adviser Dan Gerlach immediately after the vote. He was referring to the pre-kindergarten program the governor had planned to fund with lottery proceeds.

Lottery opponents were thrilled with the vote, and they sought out television cameras and newspaper reporters crowding the hallways outside the House chamber.

"It's a defeat for the governor, no question," said House Minority Leader Leo Daughtry, a Smithfield Republican. "He simply could not get the votes, so I think it's a real blow to his leadership."

House Speaker Jim Black, meanwhile, blamed Republicans and his voice rose as his frustration showed through.

Black said the vote likely would reverberate in November -- to the Republicans' detriment. Polls have consistently shown that most North Carolinians favor a lottery when the proceeds are earmarked for education.

"I expect the people in the November election will remember who was willing to let them vote and who was not," he said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whether of not to have a lottery was not nearly as important question, politically, as to whether to have a referendum on the lottery. This vote is a huge defeat for the Democrats, and for Governor Sleasley.

Speaker Black's assertion that "people in the November election will remember who was willing to let them vote and who was not" is so much whistling past the graveyard. In fact, the absence of the issue on the ballot should depress the turnout of the Dems' core constituencies. Had the measure been on the ballot, waves of "soft money" aimed to get out the vote would have the effect of doing just that. Marginal voters who might be persuaded to trek to the polls only because of this issue would be much more likely to be straight-ticket Dem voters.

The NC House and Senate votes are critical this November, because, after a court-won redistricting battle, the GOP actually has a chance to control the General Assembly. The first item on the agenda for the newly-elected House and Senate members will be to redistrict again, since the court-mandated lines are for the 2002 election only. The importance of this round of elections can't be emphasized enough.

Legislators who supported the referendum were cowardly. Nothing more and nothing less. They preferred political cover to making decisions. The referendum was to have been non-binding, as it must be according to the state constitution, and the wording of the ballot question was to have been so non-specific as to have been a joke.

One of the prime beneficiaries of the lottery was to have been pre-pre-school for four year olds. Does anyone remember parents?

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Forget the conservative "moral argument" that gambling is bad. The true conservative argument should be that if gambling is something that the public agrees it wants (ie. personal freedom to choose) that, the argument should go, the government should not be running this business. The state should tax and regulate it like other businesses but should not be running the business. Therefore, a "government run" lottery is a bad idea.

[kcar]

Great to see this go down in flames. Those who think that the lottery is a tax on the poor and stupid are right, of course, but the issue for NC is a bit deeper. The State is mandated to match it's spending budget to projected (tax) revenues, and they failed to do their duty here, counting on this referendum. This would just inflate a hugely bloated state government (we already have higher taxes than MA). The state needs to do what every family does when it projects lower income - cut spending.

Also, the Democrats like the idea of a referendum just to attract voter turnout, of the aforementioned target groups.

[jern]

I agree 1,000%. Exactly my point.

[Constitution Day]

Thanks bud.
I've had a GREAT one, but one too many Rusty Nails.

CD

[JWinNC]

good news bump

I can hear the Parrot now: "Easley wants a lottery, Easley wants a lottery..."

JWinNC

[F.J. Mitchell]

Well,well, Impeach, If you believe that the government taking money from the poorest of the poor, is such a terrible atrosity if done through a lottery, that at least despite the odds, offers them some reason to hope-I have a few points for you to mull over: THe state of North Carolina runs the hard liquor retail outlets AKA ABC Stores, they seem to feel no concern for the poorest of the poor who are their biggest customers. The State of North Carolina and the US Government, tax cigarettes at much higher levels than vices like chewing gum, colas, candy, etc., and seem not a bit concerned that the poorest of the poor are buying more cigarettes than anyone else. Same with beer and wine, taxed unmercifully, and consumed mostly by the poorest of the poor, I don't see the pious or the politicians feeling enough compassion for their children to suggest a cut in taxes upon these-in fact it is usually the first thing considered when the legislature needs more revenues.

The anti-lottery crowd are seen by themselves as, the guardians of virture and sweetness, their mirrors reflect the faces of hypocrites and liars. All taxes in the end, fall upon the bottom end of the pecking order, one way or the other. Cooperate and business taxes along with most of the rest are just passed on to the consumers- who mostly are of modest means.

[Moby Grape]

You err, and err greatly...you are not paying attention..Stop the silly childish assertions that if someone disagrees with you about the lottery they are purtians trying to impose their values on you poor sinners...let's move up to the adult level of discussion....You sight government liquor stores...so, in your world, since the government already spreads misery, why not MORE?...It is the Clintonian argument..."Well, everybody LIES, so what is the big deal?...Everybody cheats, so why flunk anyone at school?....Can you REALLY state that 1 in 13,000,000 odds are better than saving and investing? Can you REALLY, on an adult level, suggest that someone should pin their hopes on odds that are GREATER than being hit by lightning THREE times in you lifetime?...BUT, most importantly...and this is what I REALLY pointed to, do you REALLY believe that education needs MORE money? Do you really believe that more money will solve eduction problems in this country?...If you take your car to get the transmission fixed, and it breaks again after driving a few miles, will you give them MORE money to break it again and again?...Find ONE state where, after getting the lottery, the education REALLY inproved (real numbers, not cooked ones by the NEA)...Find ONE state that cut property taxes after getting ALL that lottery money.

[Ides of March]

I've never understood the Conservative argument that since a lottery is gambling, we should prohibit it. That puts us in the hypocritical position of making nanny decisions for El Publico.

Gambling is already prohibited by law in NC. Proponents of a state lottery want to make an exception and grant a statist monopoly on gambling.

So, who's position is hypocritical?

Beware.

[Wright is right!]

"Funny that facts to a social liberal are labeled a rant..."

No, what earned the posting label of "rant" was its length and tenor. I like it when people are able and willing to edit their arguments into a nice cogent two- or three-paragraph posit. The term "rant" has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not I accept the ranter's argument - merely how it was put forth.

I happen to enjoy buying the occasional lottery ticket with a couple of bucks from my entertainment budget - it gives me a multi-day fantasy that's a lot more enjoyable than an equivalent amount spent at a Sticky House (movie theater) for a 2-hour Hollyweird film. And I don't like the concept of the state telling me I can't play the lottery because "it's bad for me." I'll make that decision, thanks.

Michael

[Moby Grape]

Mike...I do not have a problem with you buying a lotto ticket....I have a problem with the FALSE promises of the lottery, and with the broad brush attacks by those who support the lottery trying to paint anyone who disagrees as religious nazi types.

[F.J. Mitchell]

That is er,....Impea, unless you mean err as in error instead of as hesitation. Childish? What pray tell is more childish than looking upon the government as a parent to save us from ourselves?I never implied or inferred that the anti-lottery jokers are puritans(charlatans maybe) or that I or others are poor sinners-though we all truely are (including you) either sinners saved by grace or sinners lost.

I condemn the government's running of liquor stores and compare it's involvement therein and it's dependence upon taxes on cigarettes, beer and wine as hypocritical. The state makes these legal products available to law abiding citizens and then persecute (prosecute does not apply here) them for partaking thereof. Snakes crawl at night, every where but Raleigh, NC, they crawl there, night and day, all year around, since our part time legislature declared itself a full time employee and/or dependent of NC's long suffering citizens.

On an adult level(70 years and counting) I can't believe anyone would plan their retirement around winning a lottery. Can you, on an adult level explain to me , why people cannot save, invest, and play the lottery as well?

You ask if I believe that education really needs more money? I ask you if the clowns in the various fields of entertainment really need more wealth? Who, after all, has been paid so much for doing so many things, we not only could do without, but would likely be healthier and happier for the absence thereof?

Most humans do not expect the lottery to cure everything from AIDS to West Nile disease. We just want a little amusement, similar to what Hollywood provides to movie nuts. What has your vice cured lately?