Cardinal Egan Defends Record in Abuse Cases

ardinal Edward M. Egan yesterday defended his handling of priest sexual abuse cases while he was bishop of Bridgeport and said his leadership of the New York archdiocese during the past seven months of crisis was not getting the credit it deserved.

"I think we handled the matters properly," Cardinal Egan said. "I think we're handling them properly now."

In his first extensive interview since the sexual abuse scandal began enveloping the Roman Catholic Church nationwide, the cardinal described the past year as the most difficult of his life. He said Sept. 11, the scandal and other crises, including a school strike, forced him to delay his major initiatives for the archdiocese of 2.4 million Catholics. They include plans to reach out to immigrant groups and possibly to close parishes.

He disclosed, however, that he has reached one major goal: erasing a more than $20 million operating deficit, which he inherited two years ago. And he promised eventually to eliminate the archdiocese's long-term debt.

In a 90-minute interview in his high-rise office at the New York Catholic Center, with the Chrysler Building gleaming in the distance, the cardinal made it clear that he was keenly aware of criticism among both the clergy and lay Catholics that he has failed to serve his flock as a pastor. He obliquely faulted the news media and blamed people disgruntled by his budget and personnel cuts. He portrayed himself several times as relying heavily on advisers in making legal and financial decisions. [Excerpts, Page B4.]

Cardinal Egan, who is 70, also rejected any notion that as the leader of the Archdiocese of New York — to many the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the nation — he served as a national church leader. "I see myself as a servant of the people of God of the Archdiocese of New York," he said, with one overriding concern: its 414 parishes.

He also displayed his deep knowledge of classical music, his fluency in Latin and Italian and his love for and intimacy with Rome, a city where he lived for many years. He spoke with ease on those subjects, but grew serious, almost guarded, in discussing the affairs of the archdiocese. He said he could not speak freely regarding the sex abuse scandal because court cases were pending in Bridgeport and New York.

Some advocates for victims of sex abuse have portrayed the cardinal as being too slow to remove priests accused of molesting minors while he served as bishop of Bridgeport, a position he held from 1988 to 2000.

Cardinal Egan yesterday repeated his past assertions that he relied on the expert advice of psychiatrists in allowing some accused priests to keep working in Bridgeport — a practice that was common across the country. But that measure, he said, has changed. "Right now, I have less and less confidence in depending upon the medical and psychiatric community," he said. "It's too dangerous, it seems to me, to do anything now but to play always on the side of safety," he said, and suspend priests more promptly.

In April, the cardinal said he was sorry "if in hindsight we also discover that mistakes may have been made" regarding the removal of priests and assisting victims. Yesterday, when asked if he had made any mistakes, he answered, "I think that we did this properly, as it was understood at that time, and I'm happy with what we did."

As archbishop of New York since 2000, the cardinal has faced a different set of challenges. Some priests have felt angry about what they see as harsh treatment of accused fellow clerics, while victims and their advocates are angry at him for not acting decisively enough.

At the same time, some Catholics portray him as an absentee shepherd during the church's most deeply troubled time in generations. To these faithful, he is an aloof archbishop who has failed to bring a sense of healing and trust.

"In two years, he has not been much of an archbishop for New York, that is, for the life of the city," said the Rev. Richard John Neuhaus, editor of First Things, a conservative journal, and one of more than a dozen people interviewed who expressed similar feelings. "He's a good, faithful man. I think he's just missed opportunity after opportunity to be what a bishop should be. That is, a teacher."

John M. Conroy, a retired school principal active in his parish of Church of the Holy Family in New Rochelle, said the bishop was well-suited to solving financial problems. "But right now those are not the important problems," he said. "This guy is so distant, and not the kind of person who is going to be helpful in these troubled times."

Except for two homilies around Easter week, the cardinal has mainly communicated to the archdiocese at large through letters read in churches, statements issued to the press and a column in Catholic New York, the diocesan newspaper. He has spoken to some degree about the scandal during Sunday parish visits. He has rarely spoken to reporters.

Bishops elsewhere have taken a different approach, meeting with victims and establishing a special ministry for them, holding outdoor healing ceremonies or engaging in media campaigns. Yesterday, the cardinal distanced himself from such bishops. "I don't think that's the way to do it," he said. "I think we've handled it in a very serious way," adding, "Everybody has a different way of dealing with things."

He suggested that criticism of him as being aloof was exaggerated. "We're getting through more than some people might have suspected," he said. He has been dogged by such criticism since succeeding Cardinal John J. O'Connor, whom some regard as more charismatic. But Cardinal Egan said it was common for a bishop who was dealing with administrative problems to be faulted for lacking the pastoral touch.

For instance, in disclosing yesterday that he was considering taking steps to reduce the archdiocese's long-term debt, he said: "As soon as you publish this, somebody's going to say, `See, he's not a pastor of souls at all, he's only interested in other things.' But we have to put our house in order, and we're putting our house in order."

It was by cutting jobs and archdiocesan offices, tightening up spending and slowing down hiring that he was able to erase the deficit, he said. He also noted that the archdiocese exceeded this year's $15 million goal in the annual capital fund-raising appeal by more than $2 million.

He suggested that journalists relied too heavily on his antagonists. In the course of 150 parish visits, he said, the welcome has been extraordinary. "You know and I know it all depends on who you're talking to, who's on your Rolodex — and who's on your Rolodex is pretty much someone who's going to be provocative in these statements," he said.

The cardinal acknowledged being caught between Catholics who feel he has not dealt strongly enough with abusive priests and parishioners who say their pastors have been treated too harshly by being dismissed for long-ago transgressions.

The archdiocese on April 2 gave the Manhattan district attorney's office a list of all priests accused of abusing a minor in the past 40 years. Within days, Cardinal Egan suspended six serving priests, and later, his vicar of development, over accusations regarding long-ago incidents.

In June, he joined with the nation's bishops in approving guidelines that require the permanent removal from ministry of a priest once an act of sexual abuse is admitted or "established." Since then, the archdiocese said that one priest had been suspended because of a 20-year-old allegation. The future of the suspended priests remains uncertain. Nearly 24 other cases have been turned over to prosecutors, most of those priests retired or already defrocked. Cardinal Egan said that once prosecutors review the cases, the archdiocese's lay review board will help him decide each priest's fate.

When asked whether the bishops' actions would restore the badly eroded trust of American Catholics, he said: "Time will have to tell. I'm not a prophet. I think what we are doing and have done is correct."

The cardinal said he was ready to face more criticism once he turns his attention to parishes and schools. Declining to say whether he would close any, he said, "I have plans to readjust them," which could include establishing new parishes.

The Rev. Joseph A. O'Hare, the president of Fordham University, sympathized with the cardinal for having to make difficult decisions on reducing costs, and said criticism of his actions regarding accused priests in Bridgeport was unfair.

However, he said, "A good archbishop is someone who has to communicate a message that inspires confidence and trust in people." Cardinal Egan has not had time to demonstrate those characteristics, Father O'Hare said, because of the need to deal with finances and respond to the sex abuse scandal.

Outside the concerns of the church, Cardinal Egan was expansive in reminiscing about his days in Rome, where he studied and served as a judge on a Vatican court, the Sacred Roman Rota, for 14 years until 1985, when he was consecrated a bishop. He recalled how, before a piano trio concert at the Santa Cecilia auditorium, he induced the trio to substitute Schubert's Piano Trio in B flat major for the E flat because he loved the B flat's slow movement so much.

As the interview ended, Cardinal Egan slapped the arms of his chair, jumped up, and, signaling that he had spoken enough, said, "Basta!"

Excerpts from the interview: (one needs to be registered on the site to view the articles)

ollowing are excerpts from an interview yesterday with Cardinal Edward M. Egan, as recorded by The New York Times.

``Most difficult year of my life. No question, most difficult year of my life. ...

I had a lot of problems to address here. I'm trying to do what I knew I was going to do. But there were a lot of interruptions. Then of course the whole business about all of these scandals. And so it has been just an incredibly difficult year. I think that the archdiocese, I can't talk about anything that's in the hands of the court or the hands of the district attorney. And I haven't. I've been very, very good on that. I don't think anybody's heard a word out of me on any of this. The cases that have been over the last 40 years, everyone that's been accused, I've been over to the district attorneys, which I've done long before Dallas. And when we hear from the district attorneys we will move on the next move. ...

This is how we decided to handle this before Dallas. I've had very good guidance and I think we're doing the right thing. There are going to be criticisms. ...

When this started I had a number of different approaches of how we would deal with this with the district attorneys, and they insisted on what we have now. We spent hours and hours and hours working out different ways this could be handled so the legitimate interests and rights of every one would be defended, and protected. ...

I have no choice. Do you think I have any choice? The district attorneys have insisted that it be done this way, that they be given information and we say nothing on it until they have made their, in a sense, return the files. ...

Our position, and I would love to see it put in the Times, is the very first consideration, a controlling consideration, the consideration that dominates all others, is the protection of the children. Therefore, if anyone has something to say on this, we would ask them to go directly to the district attorney, the district attorney can inform us, or go directly to the district attorney and then inform us. But if it comes to us, we go to the district attorney, too. When I do this, I will ask the accused, who's not always guilty, to step aside until the matter is clarified, which is a very, very difficult situation. ...

If one of our people steps aside, everyone knows that this person has been accused of something. It's a very, very awkward thing, but we've done it, we've done it long before Dallas, we've done it since I've come here. ...

I have to make decisions. Now obviously I make decisions the way you always make decisions, with the counsel of other people. There will be criticism. Many of the accused are highly, highly esteemed, and you'll hear very serious criticism, but that's part of the job. ...

My first interest in this archdiocese is the 413, now 414 parishes, in the archdiocese. For me that's the archdiocese. This building is a service unit for the parishes. ... I believe that my first job, and I believe this in my 48 years as a priest, that my focus is in the parishes. If the newspapers really want to know, or the radio, or the television really want to know, they ought to be with me when I'm in the parishes. ... My impression is that the welcome and acceptance is extraordinary. Now ... no one's a good judge in his own case, you know. But I think that we're not, we're getting through more than some people might suspect. ...''

I've had to come here and do a lot of difficult things. I've had to let a lot of people go and make some rather strong changes, because we've had to put our house in order. I think if you go to the diocese I came from ... once you have a place in reasonable order, you can find you have much less criticism for those kinds of attitudes. But I've had to do a lot of things that have inconvenienced and upset a lot of people and they had to be done. And I think that a lot of people would not use the word imperious. But time will tell. ...

I think any good archbishop is going to be liked and the next one is going to come along and say that he did a fine job, and they'll say ``Well, why didn't you do as good a job.'' I think the same thing probably happened with Cardinal Cooke and Cardinal O'Connor, or maybe Cardinal Spellman and Cardinal Cooke, I don't know. I think that's standard. Remember, I was secretary to Cardinal Meyer in Chicago, and Cardinal Strich had to be one of the most beloved southern gentleman and everything. I was with Cardinal Meyer right from the beginning and people would make the comparison, but I think when Cardinal Meyer died, he was the challenge for the next one coming along. ...

One thing I've learned is you don't learn very much sitting in an office and dialing the Rolodex. I've been secretary to two cardinals. You need to get out and see ... I think right now if you were to look at one of the issues here in the archdiocese is, you have to be sure the parishes are in the right places and are serving the new communities coming in. ...

This is a very quickly changing population here and adjusting to it and trying to serve it in those parishes is for me a primary focus. If you want to know what I'm about, I'm about having our parishes in the right places serving the people the best they can and facing cultural changes, linguistic changes. ...

Another big challenge is our schools. I'm very much committed to our schools. We're going to make tough decisions about our schools, just as we're going to have to make tough decisions about parishes. We have sections of the upper counties which have huge Catholic populations and parishes and schools that aren't able to serve them. We have here in the boroughs certain sections where nobody's living any more. Those are going to be also the source of criticisms. ...

We have a certain amount of indebtedness around here. And the way that I handle indebtedness is that I've put a line item in the budget which is called debt reduction. As soon as you publish this, somebody's going to say, `He's not a pastor of souls at all, he's only interested in other things.' But we have to put our house in order, and we're putting our house in order. ...

I've actually lost a year. Of my two years. This year has been so tremendously occupied. But I think we've done rather well. And I'm pleased. ...

When this is all over in Bridgeport, we'll sit down, and here in New York, when it's also over, we'll sit down, and I'll give you my analysis. Right now, as long as the New York cases are before the district attorney, as long as there is any litigation at all in the diocese I just left, i'm going to wait, OK? ...

I think what we are doing and have done is correct. I believe that the Dallas decisions pretty much reflect what we did and are doing. They don't go as far as we do, because my approach has always been to ask for laicization [leaving the priesthood]. If I didn't get it, all right. ...

If you take it out of the context of the times, right now I have less and less confidence in depending upon the medical and the psychiatric community to tell me if the person can control this sort of thing, or has controlled it. My experience is that sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're wrong. They're probably right more than they're wrong. But it's too dangerous, it seems to me, to do anything now but to play always on the side of safety. My first consideration has to be protection, to see there is no harm done. While I will be sending these people to these institutions or whatever, maybe not the same ones, my trust in their ability to analyze and figure it out and forecast is significantly diminished. ...

I think that we handled the matters properly. I think we're handling them properly now. Everything happens at a time, with a certain amount of information and a certain amount of insight, and to take yesterday and to judge it in terms of today, it sells newspapers. ...

The way we've done it is proper. I think we've handled it in a very serious way. Every one who has been a victim has certainly been spoken to and helped in every way, in a proper context. ... Everybody has a different way of dealing with things. I think we've dealt with them properly. ...

I see myself as a servant of the people of God of the archdiocese of New York. This is my job. I am archbishop of New York. I am 70 years old. ...

Every diocese is a unit unto itself, with a bishop, just the same as it was in the time of the apostles. To say that one bishop somehow or another has control, or whatever, or speaks for the others, that's not my theology. I see myself and I'm not someone who works for the Holy See. The Holy Father has a diocese. I have a diocese, the Archdiocese of New York, three boroughs and seven counties, and I am to do everything I can to bring holiness to as many people who are willing to be involved in my efforts at holiness. I do it through prayer and the church. I do it through what we preach from the pulpit what we teach in our schools and in our catechism and how we live out our charity. ...

Cardinal Egan was expansive in reminiscing about his days in Rome, where he studied and served as a judge on a Vatican court, the Sacred Roman Rota, for 14 years until 1985, when he was consecrated a bishop.

This guy's a bureaucrat, not a pastor of souls.

He might make a good CEO, but a fisher of men, he ain't.

Egan inhereted a whole lot of problems and none are the sort that go away overnite. Maybe he was sent to NY to clean them up. Frankly, as fast as the records were turned over to the DA and as adament as he has been in protecting children and those who are not guilty, I have a hard time thinking that he is one of the obstructors.

Compare this to Los Angeles. THERE's a cardinal who deserves some scrutiny.

Cardinal Egan Defends Record in Abuse Cases I knew he could do it...what is the record anyway...will it be in Guiness?

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