Let Us Pray: A Call for More Orthodoxy, and Latin Mass, for the Troubled Church

The New York Times, New Jersey section (not published online) | May 26, 2002 | Benedicta Cipolla

[ELS]

I first met Ron and his wife, Kim, last year at a communion breakfast, sponsored by ChristiFideles, where they were seeking signatures for the petition for a Latin Mass. I signed the petition and inquired as to its status when I would see Ron and/or Kim. Well, in December Msgr. Chiang received an affirmative response from the archbishop and the first Tridentine Mass occurred last week on Pentecost.

Ron has done the yeoman's work in getting this off the ground. I have helped where I can and am currently participating in the schola. We have a fabulous schola director who is a priest pursuing a graduate degree in liturgical music. The organ was recently restored and sounds beautiful.

The article is rather charitable, considering its in the New York Times. They couldn't resist getting in a dig or two, but there are also some paragraphs that seem quite out of place for the New York Times.

[ELS]

A ConSpiratio bump!

Goetz, this is a possible alternative, accessible via public transportation (PATH), should crossing the Hudson River lose its appeal or convenience.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

No offense meant but a mere change of form will not cure what is happening to the Roman church. Apparently the American hierarchy attempted to temporize with homosexuals. Reality kicked in and things blew up in their face. Hope you can cure the mess.

[ELS]

Thank you for the link on an earlier thread to the ixtmedia site and the Liturgy of the Hours in Latin. That is quite a useful site with some very interesting products.

[ELS]

I guess you missed the point about orthodoxy.

[ELS]

Pinging some NJ Catholic FReepers...

[Dajjal]

Dominus vobiscum!

I'm with you 100% that the Traditional Mass needs to be restored.

Plus, the present scandal demonstrates just how out of touch the bishops are regarding the wishes of the laity. We request the Latin Mass and are ignored; we request the bishops remove pedophile priests and are ignored.

But the Traditional Mass is not in and of itself a solution to the current crisis, as the scandal surrounding the Society of St. John makes clear.

[ELS]

Pinging a few friends...

[ELS]

I read about the St. John nightmare on a traditional Catholic mailing list.

The solution is to return to orthodoxy. Many bishops let the heretics run wild sowing confusion and choose to discipline the orthodox, traditional Catholics (usually for pointing, directly or indirectly, out how unorthodox the bishops are). It's about time they start disciplining the heretics, instead.

[ELS]

Here is the NYT article.

[Cicero]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the Novus Ordo. The translations into English are abominable, largely due to the influence of liberal bishops in the American Bishop's Conference, who have backed the cretins at ICEL. I agree that the old Mass was preferable. It grew up gradually and organically over many centuries, whereas the Novus Ordo was established by fiat.

Strangely, none of this was mandated by Vatican II, which advocated continuance of the use of Latin and also advocated use of Gregorian Chant. Rather, the liberals kidnapped the council and misrepresented it for their own purposes.

I still remember the first words of the old Mass as an altar server. I quote from memory, so they may not be exact:

Introibo ad altare Dei. Ad Deum qui laetificat juventutem meam.

It is, of course, biblical, from the Psalms. Many Protestants would be surprised how biblical the Mass is.

[uncbob]

A heck of a lot of people under the age of 40 don't have the faintest memory of a Latin Mass

[sinkspur]

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the Novus Ordo.

There's nothing wrong with the Novus Ordo, period.

Peripherals have crept in, some good, some bad. I see nothing wrong with cultural traditions, such as the Mexican Quincianera, being acclimated to the Liturgy.

Latin is simply not going to return to the mainstream liturgical celebrations of the Catholic Church, in America, or France, or Mexico, or anywhere else.

I'm all for granting those who wish to celebrate the Tridentine Mass the opportunity to do so. But the Novus Ordo is determinative. Celebrate it in Latin on occasion, but Catholics in America are not demanding a return to a Latin liturgy.

[ELS]

While that is true, what is your point? I was born during the council and had never experienced a Latin Mass until early last year. Many Jewish children with whom I grew up learned Hebrew. Are you saying Catholics can't learn Latin? After trying the Latin Mass, I decided I liked it. In fact, I preferred it.

[Mike Fieschko]

Thanks very much for this post. I think I could count on both hands the number of sung Masses I attended growing up, and now two in two weeks.

Una Voce Jersey City has a web site.

[livius]

A surprisingly positive article. Thanks for posting it!

[yendu bwam]

Traditionalists "go against many aspects of American Catholicism," he said.

Or: The American Catholic Church goes against many aspects of true Christianity.

[yendu bwam]

But the Traditional Mass is not in and of itself a solution to the current crisis

It's more of a problem of teaching actual Catholicism, and requiring that such be taught. True Catholic beliefs can exist well with either modern or traditional masses. But it seems absurd not to offer traditional masses when so many want them and experience God more deeply because of them.