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To: coalminersson
Israel has been under attack since the 1940s.

Within four hours of Israel's declaration of independence, the United States formally recognized Israel. They were an internationally recognized nation state before the inevitable invasion by their neighbors. There was certainly a war, not to obtain independence, but to maintain independence, a war of survival for a very new state.

On December 11, 1947 it was announced that the British Mandate would end on May 15, 1948. Britain was appointed by the League of Nations, and later the United Nations, to administer the Mandate of Palestine. Israel declared independence on May 14, 1948. Whether Israel had declared independence or not, the Mandate was disappearing the next day, leaving the territory independent.

The land itself ceased to be Hebrew land nearly three millenia ago. It was Muslim controlled land until the League of Nations proclaimed the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, and appointed the British to act as administrator for the Mandate.

How the League of Nations gained the authority to own the mandate or declare a purpose to create a Jewish state in the middle of what had been Muslim controled land for millenia, who knows? The same may be said for the United Nations creating the Jewish state, with Britain acting as its administrator. Much the same was done to Africa by the European colonial powers, drawing borders to suit the colonizing powers. The Mandate hokum just sprinkled legal pixie dust on the matter.

In the struggle to overthrow the Turkish Ottoman Empire, the British enlisted the aid of the Arabs to hold an Arab uprising against the Turks, and promised a large independent Arab nation. Having fought against the Turks, imagine the Arab surprise to learn their efforts were repaid with a declaration to create a Jewish state on then-Muslim land.

And so, this effort at nation building created not only a Jewish state, but an irreconcilable conflict that persists to this day. Regarding the land, both sides have reasonable arguments in a territorial dispute created by outsiders.

In 1967, Israel was the aggressor in the war that they started. They excused themselves by claiming it was a pre-emptive strike. In technical terms, that is bovine scatology. A claim that the other guy was about to attack you is evidence that other guy did not attack you. The UN and the international courts classify the land grabbed by Israel as unlawfully occupied territory. The recent terrorist attack from Gaza was performed by Hamas, not Iran. It was performed by civilian terrorists, and however heinous their acts, said acts were within the jurisdiction of a civilian court. Any possible claim of an Israel to a claim of self-defense fails. No claim of self-defense can arise relevant to unlawfully occupied territory. There was no attack on Israel and the unlawfully occupied territory of Palestine is not Israel.

Months later, Israel takes it upon themselves to blow up diplomatic a consular facility in Syria. The diplomatic facility belonged to Iran. Whiloe Israel attempts to pardon itself by saying it was not the embassy, if anything blowing up the consular property was legally worse. Both are off limits as military targets. An embassy is considered the sovereign territory of the mission country. A consulate, unlike an embassy, remains sovereign territory of the host country. Israel blew up an Iranian consulate which was part of the sovereign territory of Syria. It committed an act of war against two countries.

It's a rolling ongoing war Most of their actions are tempered....

Except for unlawfully occupying almost all the land of Palestine, and blowing up a consular facility in Syria belonging to Iran, and starting a war of aggression in 1967 in order to steal land, yeah. Apparently, Sherman's March was tempered as well. The current trouble is also about the small amount of remaining Muslim land. Israel wants it.

Actually, Iran's attack was very measured. They killed nobody and created relatively little destruction. It was focused on military bases and not cities and towns. The spectacular distraction of several hundred drones served as targets while their old missiles missiles were delivered onto military targets, not to cause great damage, but to demonstrate that they could defeat Israel's air defense system with drones and old missiles. Iran has much newer missiles to use if they want.

It is literally impossible for Israel to fight a war with Gaza. Gaza is not a recognized nation and wars are between nations. About the best that can be done is an Armed Conflict of a Non-International Character. Hamas is categorized as a terrorist group, not as the uniformed armed services of a nation. Upon capture, they do not become prisoners-of-war.

assassinating a nuclear physicist on the street in Tehran is preferable to launching 250 rockets in downtown Iran. But I hope some one will.

250 rockets flying at 100 mph are what the air defense system is tracking when the missiles arrive. I hope nobody launches missiles. The Houthi's continue to operate to block shipping through the Bab al Mandab Strait which connects the Red Sea with the Gulf of Aden at the far end of the Red Sea from the Suez Canal. This despite a more than 20 nation coalition operating under Operation Prosperity Guardian.

Maybe we don't want a war that could close the Strait of Hormuz. They may be too busy trying to defeat the Houthis to work up another and more successful 20 nation coalition.

The Suez Canal was closed from 1967 to 1975. The Strait of Hormuz is the busiest oil-shipping channel in the world. It has never been closed. It is the only sea path from the Persian Gulf to an ocean. Iran could close it. Maybe it's not such a good idea to hope to start a big shooting war in that area.

45 posted on 04/17/2024 10:38:10 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher

you think pre-emtive strikes are not appropriate. I disagree

I start with the UN resolution Israel is now Israel and legitimate and regardless of what happened the last 2000 not 3000 years (even as romans controlled them) they have a serious claim to the territory. Unless you know a bunch of Caananites who do.

The real issue of legitimacy is on the Gazans What are palestinains but people who moved to the area from Syria, egypt and other places. It was the terrorist arafat who used the Palestinian cry to try to argue Israel was illegitimate.

The point at issue now is the Gazans killing Israelis in israel and taking hostages and their ongoing lobbing rockets into Israel using hospitals and schools for cover. When Hamas sells their rockets and buys food and medicine for their people, then they may start having some legitimacy.

Thanx for the history lesson. I disagree with several of your editorial comments.

My prayer today is the Israeli’s will clean out the vipers nest in Rafah and the US and Israel will bring hell and brimstone to Iran.


46 posted on 04/18/2024 10:04:57 AM PDT by coalminersson (since )
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To: woodpusher

In believe Gaza is a territory Regardless you can have a war on a territory or terrorist organization. We have seen several of those. I agree with a lot of what you say. But as has been said israel has the most moral army in the world.


47 posted on 04/18/2024 10:08:19 AM PDT by coalminersson (since )
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