Posted on 10/02/2023 7:52:15 PM PDT by Mariner
“how they’re actually going to win the war.”
Putin’s objectives in invading Ukraine were to establish Russian control over Ukraine without facing significant Western resistance and break the unity of NATO. He claimed the goal was to “demilitarize” Ukraine.
By those standards Ukraine won — like a potential kidnapping victim who fought against the kidnapper and broke a leg, is bleeding, but is still not captured by the kidnapper (Putin’s Muscowy).
By that standard, Ukraine won - it’s now trying to ensure that the kidnapper never has the ability to even attempt to kidnap Ukraine again.
After 2014/2015 Ukraine thought Putin would be satisfied with his pound of flesh in taking both Crimea and de facto the Donetsk People’s republic + Luhansk People’s republic.
But Putin was not satisfied and went for a decapitation move to vassalize Ukraine.
He failed but is only waiting for the world to forget so he can complete his goal. The Ukrainians on the other hand got invigorated and now have a sense of identity (thanks to Putin’s invasion) and won’t submit to the darkness.
how exactly do you see Zelensky as a dictator? He was elected only in 2019 - after winning against Poroshenko (who was elected in 2014). And in the next election he’s going to face off against both Poroshenko and Klitschko (mayor of Kyiv).
He has no dictatorial powers.
In contrast Putin has been a dictator for 23 years.
Now to your second point “I don’t care who wins or loses” - if it was just these two duking it out, that would be fine, but look at the stakes here - it gives legitimacy to expansion of territory by military conquest. When was the last time that happened before 2014? It was before 1945. Do we really want a world where military conquests are options? That invasion by Putin has emboldened Azerbaijan and will embolden a number of other countries unless this is shown as a definitive “no-no”.
Why does this impact the USA? Because if military conquests become acceptable then this is going to affect US interests sooner - much sooner - rather than later.
I do not think the US should directly get involved in Ukraine i.e. no US troops. But by giving the Ukrainians the ability to fight back, this sends a clear message to any would-be aggressors that military conquests of territory will not be tolerated.
Now to the “dictator” tag for the former TV comedian Zelensky - here’s why it is a false tag:
1. it is often cited about “banning opposition parties” - let’s look at this, 11 opposition parties were suspended by the Ukrainian parliament.
Yes, not Zelensky directly - The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided to ban the activity of Opposition Party — For Life, Shariy Party, Nashi, Opposition Bloc, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, State, Progressive Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialist Party of Ukraine, Socialists Party and Volodymyr Saldo Bloc. These are all parties that have political ties with the aggressor that is currently invading.
Why? Because these were funded by Putin’s government. how many seats did they have in parliament? TWO. If you openly or secretly support an entity (in this case Russia) that invaded your country, has killed thousands of people in your country, destroyed half of the country and mercilessly bombing your countrymen, then your party will be suspended. As of January 1, 2020, there are 349 officially registered political parties in Ukraine.
11 were suspended.
2. then about news media. Ukrainian TV channels ZIK, NewsOne, and 112 were forced off the air late on February 2 after the official channel owner and opposition MP Taras Kozak was hit with sanctions. All three channels are widely believed to belong to Russian president Vladimir Putin’s closest ally in Ukraine, Viktor Medvedchuk, and have long been seen as platforms for Kremlin messaging in Ukraine’s information space. It is never a good idea to allow the enemy to lie to your citizens.
Now Zelensky isn’t the great hero that some puff him up to be, but he is no dictator. We may not like his constant whining and complaining, but he’s succeeded in keeping attention on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, which is against what Putin needed. By doing so, he’s given Ukraine a fighting chance against Putin and helped it build a new national narrative
The truth about ukraine is bad enough, no propaganda is needed. Marina Abramovic for an ambassador.....
“just let me have Ukraine”
this is my last territorial demand”
What a bunch of bovine excrement.
We had a Civil War here in this country, but we never cancelled an election during it. Zelenskyy cancelled Ukraine elections until the war ends, whenever that will be. Maybe if we send him billions of dollars more, and not require that he be held responsible for where any of it ends up, he’ll get around to making that decision.
“our leaders want us to be all excited about Ukraine and Russia.”
No, they want us to be excited about repudiating the act of condoning the military conquest and annexation of nations. If that is acceptable then you can expect not only economic suffering but wars of conquest breaking out across the globe. A dystopian world of Poverty and perpetual wars of conquest. There go your liberties, freedoms and lifestyle. And don’t forget you have to also pay ‘your fair share’ of the 40T debt too). Your Liberties and Freedoms are forfeit. They will be gone for the rest of your life!
I am against funding Ukraine, and I don’t need Putin’s help.
The next thing we’ll hear is that Ukraine has a Nazi problem and they’re a corrupt nation.
Damn Russians - Anything they say, people believe!!!
Ukraine has already won in the sense of a kidnap victim targeted by a serial murderer (Putin).
the Kidnap victim (Ukraine) fought off Putin and is NOT a Putin vassal state. Yes, Ukraine has been grievously wounded, but is that better than being kidnapped by the serial killer/kidnapper? Yes, yes it is.
We do know what Putin's original desired end state for Ukraine was - he signaled it from day one with his statements that "it was not a legitimate state", that it was really part of Russia, that it should be "demilitarized" i.e. ready for him to occupy with no issue.
Putin's desired end state did not materialize thanks to the actions of the Ukrainians in the battle of Hostomel and of Kyiv
the desired end state for Ukrainians themselves is to NOT be under the Kremlin's thumb - this is true for Ukrainian and for Russian speaking Ukrainians
Not only do you not have a path to victory, you don't know what "victory" means."
Victory for Ukraine, as I said above, is not becoming a vassal state to the Kremlin nor assimilated into Muscowy
As I said above
Putin’s objectives in invading Ukraine were to establish Russian control over Ukraine without facing significant Western resistance and break the unity of NATO. He claimed the goal was to “demilitarize” Ukraine. By those standards Ukraine won — like a potential kidnapping victim who fought against the kidnapper and broke a leg, is bleeding, but is still not captured by the kidnapper (Putin’s Muscowy).
By that standard, Ukraine won - it’s now trying to ensure that the kidnapper never has the ability to even attempt to kidnap Ukraine again.
After 2014/2015 Ukraine thought Putin would be satisfied with his pound of flesh in taking both Crimea and de facto the Donetsk People’s republic + Luhansk People’s republic.
But Putin was not satisfied and went for a decapitation move to vassalize Ukraine.
He failed but is only waiting for the world to forget so he can complete his goal. The Ukrainians on the other hand got invigorated and now have a sense of identity (thanks to Putin’s invasion) and won’t submit to the darkness.
“It’s because of this sad state of affairs the US government must control the information that is available to the American people lest they be duped.”
Europe and especially Canada are moving into FULL GOVERNMENT CONTROL of what is on the web in their countries...to the point where pretty much ANY Russian news source is blocked, discussions on Covid, lockdowns, masks, and ‘vaccines’ are only permitted if they support the party line.
One has to ask why such a high level of censorship is now needed in the West. After all, we got through the Cold War allowing Westerners to access ANY information they could get their hands on, and Soviet propaganda was MUCH GREATER than anything Russia is doing today.
So what gives and why the fear of allowing people to access any information? Easy answer - the Leftists finally have control, just as it was in the Soviet Union.
Our economies are suffering because Putin invaded and started a war
“All Putin has to do is wait until we’re bankrupt.”
We’ll just print money. The problem, though, is that when you decide to fight a war against a superpower, it’s best to PREPARE for it first. The Leftists running this country hadn’t considered that little step, so a bit longer and there will be virtually no military hardware left to send Ukraine.
Love that woman!
Looks like the brainwashed Europeans are waking up, judging by the comments above.
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