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To: Red6

Twenty years ago man. OK, 18 years ago in some cases. It’s a crock.

In this case you have cause and effect reversed. Look at the dates. Russian buildup Nov 1, US talking Nato Dec 9.


64 posted on 06/16/2023 8:38:42 AM PDT by buwaya (Strategic imperatives )
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To: buwaya

We offered NATO in October:

That is a fact, and while you are entitled to your opinions, it does not change a fact: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/

November the Russian buildup started.

The Russians then engaged us and made many, many public statements about what would result. Sergey Lavrov talked about it until he was blue in the face. We just chose to ignore it.

We simply “casually” told Ukraine that it’s OK for them to come into NATO and our news media carrying the water for this Democrat administration didn’t question what the consequences might be, if this is a prudent decision, if cost/benefit and the assumed risk made any sense.

Just like our media is not holding Biden accountable for what has happened now.

It’s Putin’s fault, even Trump, (((ANYONE))) except their boy Biden. As attitudes and perceptions begin to change and someone will need to be blamed, our media will point the finger at ANYONE except Biden and eventually they will even pin a failure on Mr. Z. This is simply because 5 of the 6 major media conglomerates that control 90% of what you see and hear are aligned with the Democrats, ~85% of all journalists are self professed more liberal minded and vote Democrat. All your economic interests in the West both in the US and EU wanted this and the political class chase these folks. The news media is either outright owned or beholden (advertisement revenue) to these oligarchs and big corporations. The government today has a much greater stake in the media (where I worked we expanded media operations by 300% from 2008 until I retired in 2022) and what you hear and see is influenced both because they grew in their media operations but also became very forward leaning on censorship.

So you get: “Ukraine is winning (for now according to our meda) and this war is anyone except Biden’s fault.”

You will find almost no article linking Biden to the cause of this war, just like you had little media coverage about Burisma and the 17 recordings, with the news media covering the Trump arraignment for hours and with hundreds of articles, pundits, editorials, etc. The media is part of the political and even government apparatus. Because Biden is a Democrat, and he was basically doing what the big corporations and oligarchs wanted, he enjoys a huge media advantage.

***This US administration has caused more death and misery in Europe than anyone else since WWII!***

***This administration has destabilized Europe and caused irreparable damage to NATO, even if that is not discussed today.***

***This administration has cost the US tax payer hundreds of billions when you look at the combined spending and economic effect of this war (sanctions) etc.***

***There will be long term consequences, as Russia will likely arm proxies that mean us harm, you will see an accelerated divestment form the dollar and further formation/development of BRICS.***

This is a stupid war, caused by an administration which gambled, and we’re all paying for it, Europe, Ukraine, the US, Russia, the nations that get their energy or food from Russia and who we tried to coerce into going along with our sanctions...

Abject failure!

If you want to gamble, go do it with your money, your life, don’t force others to pay for your game.


67 posted on 06/16/2023 9:53:21 AM PDT by Red6
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To: buwaya

This is a sad story.

I have nothing against Ukraine and frankly not even Russia.

Both are people that have something to offer this world.

These are BOTH Christian and European based cultures.

These are BOTH societies with higher literacy rates than we have in the US.

Ukraine: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/UKR/ukraine/literacy-rate or https://www.trade.gov/market-intelligence/ukraine-international-student-education

Russia: https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/macroeconomic/literacy-rate-in-russia/ or https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/literacy-rate

I post this because folks in the US won’t believe it.

We are deep into cliche and the perceptions our idiot media and Hollywood have created. This is not how we Americans see parts of Russia: https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&client=firefox-b-1-lm&q=st+petersburg+russia&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKyuWHp8j_AhXGEFkFHfrFCQcQ0pQJegQIBhAB&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1

These are countries (I’m talking about both of them) with nuclear energy, where some of the worlds top scientists come from, that compete with us in a space race and where we are DEPENDENT on them for many years to get our astronauts into space. Russia frankly beat us to the vaccine for Covid, and it is their product which commands most of the worlds market. We rent Ukraine’s AN225 to carry the heaviest loads carried by plane. We ask for help from Russia’s big icebreakers. Some of the classic composers, greatest literature, comes from there.

And now you have these two nations who are more alike than different, tearing each other apart.

If this were two morons killing each other and it had no impact on me (example: Iran-Iraq war), I wouldn’t care. But these are not morons, and this war does impact me.

There are many words you can use to describe this war: stupid, sad, idiotic, irrational, dumb... Even predictable, preventable, unnecessary...

Even funny can describe the war, in a sick sort of way, when looking at the media. When it’s a Democrat and oligarch backed war, suddenly the media is OK with perpetuating it, using mercenaries (we wanted to ban them a few years ago), the extremely high expenditures, the loss of life... Suddenly we don’t have stories about the health effects of DU (Depleted Uranium - ammunition which we are giving the Ukraine), suddenly our media is no longer concerned about folks returning and having PTSD, or the children in Ukraine and how this war is psychologically affecting them. There is a humorous aspect to this war too when you look at our media and how it is covered, in a macabre sense.

This $hit needs to end, but their is no adult out there making them (Russia-Ukraine) settle it. In fact, our senile leader with his entourage of inexperienced child experts (example: Jake Sullivan), one of our top national security advisors, are only fueling this insanity.


70 posted on 06/16/2023 11:22:10 AM PDT by Red6
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