‘Catch Me If You Can’ Conman Frank Abagnale Jr. Lied About His Lifetime of Lies, Sources Claim

Transcript
0:00 · i have not met uh my next guest i'm
0:01 · looking forward to talking with him his
0:03 · name is uh frank
0:05 · uh abagnale
0:06 · and he had a short but illustrious
0:09 · career as a con man
0:10 · some of the things he did he
0:11 · impersonated a co-pilot from major
0:14 · airline he faked it as a lawyer on the
0:16 · state attorney general's staff
0:19 · passed as a pediatrician in a georgia
0:21 · hospital
0:22 · was a phony college professor
0:24 · and cashed seventeen thousand bad checks
0:26 · amounting to two and a half million
0:28 · dollars
0:30 · and he did spend he did spend some time
0:34 · that sounds like uh executive material
0:36 · for nbc
0:39 · would you welcome please frank abagnale
0:42 · right
0:45 · [Music]
0:52 · frank since we have just met assure me
0:55 · that you are not passing if somebody
0:57 · tonight has uh frank abagnale and are
0:59 · really uh
1:00 · fred schwartz somewhere or that you're
1:02 · our what you are tonight
1:04 · those are fascinating things i read the
1:06 · audience went uh what it's a little bit
1:08 · like the story of fred was fred demera
1:11 · right in which they made a movie uh the
1:13 · great imposter
1:14 · now you did all these things out of for
1:16 · what reason
1:18 · well basically i uh at the age of 16
1:21 · coming from little town in upstate new
1:22 · york my parents separated when i was 16
1:25 · and kind of emotionally
1:28 · bothered me and i couldn't get my
1:29 · parents back together again so i ran
1:31 · away from home and found myself in new
1:33 · york city without a job with no money
1:36 · and as i went in and looked for
1:38 · employment people would say how old are
1:39 · you i'd tell them i was 16. they wanted
1:41 · to pay me a dollar and a quarter dollar
1:43 · fifty and i realized i couldn't support
1:45 · myself in new york on that amount of
1:47 · money
1:48 · so i decided to advance my age i always
1:50 · looked a little older so i started
1:52 · saying i was 26 years old people started
1:54 · paying me a little more money but not
1:56 · enough to support myself
1:58 · so i
2:00 · got into the habit of starting to write
2:02 · personal checks without having any money
2:03 · in the bank
2:04 · and
2:06 · the more i did that the more confidence
2:08 · i built up that i could do it and found
2:10 · that people easily accepted my checks
2:13 · most people don't realize how
2:15 · gullible the average store keeper is so
2:18 · you can walk in with a
2:20 · with a picture any identification that
2:22 · people could have made would you did you
2:23 · use various names
2:24 · yes i also use various occupations for
2:27 · example the airline pilot with uh
2:29 · pan-american did you basically fly on a
2:31 · plane well i would fly up in the cockpit
2:34 · so that i could fly for free and uh i
2:36 · had a uniform
2:38 · when i uh how i got this idea how did
2:40 · you con was it pan am right how did you
2:43 · con them into that you were well how i
2:44 · got this idea it was time uh for me to
2:47 · leave new york since the police were
2:48 · looking for me not only as a whole
2:52 · for the bad checks
2:53 · and uh
2:54 · i happened to be walking up 42nd street
2:56 · and i saw this airline crew come out of
2:58 · a hotel and i thought that would be the
3:00 · perfect front for me to be able to
3:02 · travel around the country posing as a
3:04 · pilot not only could i fly for free but
3:07 · i would also be able to stay at hotels
3:09 · for free because they don't have
3:10 · resources they have reciprocal things
3:12 · don't they the airlines i mean that's
3:13 · what they call like deadheading you can
3:14 · get on a plane right if they're if you
3:16 · remember one of the major airlines so
3:18 · the first thing to do is get a uniform
3:20 · and so i called pan american airlines
3:21 · got their switchboard and asked for
3:23 · their purchasing department i guess this
3:24 · was my first con and when the purchasing
3:27 · officer came on i told him that i was a
3:29 · pilot based in la was here in new york
3:31 · on a layover someone had stolen my
3:33 · uniform where could i get a replacement
3:35 · and he sent me down to the uniform
3:37 · company and called up ahead told him i
3:39 · was coming they fitted me out
3:41 · when he was done the the uniform
3:43 · manufacturer said i said how much is it
3:45 · he said well it's 289 dollars i said
3:48 · well i'll write you a check he said
3:50 · no i can't take a check i said well i'll
3:52 · pay you in cash she said no i can't take
3:55 · cash
3:56 · so i said oh he said i have to bill this
3:58 · back to your payroll account and it'll
4:00 · be deducted from your uniform allowance
4:01 · i said oh that's even better oh question
4:07 · yeah he was pretty swift he saw you yeah
4:10 · so in other words you fill out a voucher
4:11 · and they sent the voucher back to pan am
4:13 · and i then had the uniform but i didn't
4:15 · have an identification card
4:17 · and so i went to a large manufacturer
4:19 · that i found in the yellow pages in new
4:20 · york of identification cards and i told
4:22 · them that i represented an airline in
4:24 · puerto rico that was getting ready to
4:25 · expand service to the united states hire
4:28 · on 200 new employees and we wanted to go
4:30 · to a formal id card well he told me
4:33 · that's fine he said let me show you some
4:35 · samples i said this is what we're
4:36 · looking for and he said okay let me give
4:38 · you a sample to take back and i said
4:40 · could you fix it up i mean laminate it
4:42 · and make it should look like a finished
4:43 · product you can use me in the picture if
4:45 · you like he said oh fine have a seat
4:49 · and uh
4:51 · the uh
4:53 · the problem i had is when i left there
4:55 · it had no name on it had no airlines
4:56 · insignia no name and it already been
4:58 · laminated so i couldn't type anything on
5:00 · or put anything on so i walked by an
5:02 · airplane hobby shop and i walked in and
5:04 · bought a little model of a pan am plane
5:07 · and i took the decals out of the box and
5:09 · soaked them in water put the little logo
5:10 · that would have went on the tail
5:12 · up on the check up on the id card and
5:14 · then the word pan am what would have
5:16 · went on the wing crossed the id card and
5:18 · the clear decal on the plastic made a
5:20 · great car
5:20 · [Applause]
5:22 · look at this
5:25 · they like this
5:27 · everybody likes a good scam don't they i
5:29 · mean secretly
5:30 · i thought well do these ideas come to
5:32 · you quickly or do you sit and think and
5:34 · think and figure them out i would i
5:36 · would think them out uh i did that for
5:38 · about two years i traveled around about
5:40 · 82 countries when did they catch you on
5:42 · the tracks obviously the checks caught
5:44 · up with you well what i would do is i'd
5:46 · check into a hotel as an airline crew
5:48 · member sign in there'd be bill back to
5:50 · the airline then i'd check out in the
5:52 · morning and i'd write a personal check
5:54 · in the beginning and of course the
5:55 · airlines had an agreement to cover their
5:56 · employees checks up to a hundred dollars
5:58 · with the hotel so they would go ahead
6:00 · and accept it
6:01 · and then as i progressed i started
6:03 · making up airline checks so i could make
6:05 · them for three or four hundred dollars
6:07 · and i would check it
6:09 · and you traveled to some 82 countries uh
6:11 · flew some three million miles always
6:13 · rode in the cockpit in the jump seat as
6:15 · a non-revenue pilot always wrote on
6:17 · everyone but pan am so that no one would
6:19 · ask me where are you based and so forth
6:21 · didn't any of the pilots say hey what do
6:23 · you think of the new law ran system or
6:24 · the dme or well when i first started i
6:27 · was in laguardia airport sitting in a
6:28 · restaurant i'd only had the uniform a
6:30 · couple of days and a twa pilot walked in
6:32 · and said how you doing said hello and he
6:35 · said what kind of equipment are you on
6:37 · and i thought well equipment i didn't
6:39 · know what to say so i said general
6:40 · electric
6:41 · and he said
6:43 · oh and he walked out so i quickly found
6:45 · out what equipment meant what type of
6:47 · aircraft sonic aircraft you find
6:52 · what did you think you were flying a
6:54 · washer or something
6:57 · i don't know general electric i think
6:58 · didn't make my engines i know you might
7:00 · as well of course i'm referring to the
7:02 · power plant and that would
7:03 · it's a you know if you really look like
7:05 · you belong somewhere it's true isn't it
7:08 · and you have a feeling of authority
7:11 · people will almost accept you anyplace
7:12 · if you do it directly
7:15 · very true i've done that uh when i had a
7:18 · friend in the hospital i wanted to see
7:19 · them pretend put on put on well put on a
7:22 · jacket tie or dress as doctors i know
7:25 · several well dressed like marshall grove
7:27 · we both know yeah people don't ever stop
7:29 · to think walk quickly uh don't have to
7:31 · carry anything and people who kind of
7:33 · recognize me
7:34 · have said oh good morning doctor i say
7:36 · good morning
7:37 · sit down
7:38 · we'll be back here this school for
7:40 · scandal in just a moment stay with us
7:44 · talking with uh frank abagnale about
7:46 · some of his uh former exploits uh most
7:49 · of the cons you had or the flim-flam
7:50 · games were against
7:52 · corporations like airlines and so forth
7:53 · did you ever
7:54 · work on individuals as a con type of
7:57 · thing only once i was in miami and i was
7:59 · posing as a wealthy stockbroker which
8:01 · was a front for passing checks and i had
8:04 · rented a rolls royce for the chauffeur i
8:05 · was about 18 at the time
8:07 · and i was uh
8:09 · staying at the fountain blue hotel for
8:10 · about 500 a day had a penthouse and all
8:13 · of this was a front for me and i met a
8:15 · city councilman in miami and he was very
8:17 · impressed thought i was about 32 very
8:20 · wealthy and he invited me to a party
8:21 · they were giving for the mayor of miami
8:23 · at the mayor's home and while i was
8:25 · there i ran into a gorgeous model
8:28 · a well-known model at that time
8:30 · and
8:32 · one of the guests came over and said
8:34 · kind of have to watch her he said
8:36 · if you were thinking about taking her
8:38 · back to your room this evening it would
8:40 · cost you a great deal of money so wash
8:42 · yourself in ladies evening right so when
8:44 · i got talking with her i said how much
8:46 · would it cost me to take you back to my
8:48 · room for the rest of the evening
8:50 · and she said well i how much do you
8:52 · think i'm worth being 18 i had no idea
8:55 · how much she was worth but i uh
8:57 · not 50 bucks
9:00 · but i uh
9:01 · i offered uh i offered 300 and she said
9:04 · no that's i'd go back to your room with
9:06 · you for 300.
9:09 · she said that's a little bit too low so
9:10 · i said okay well what if i doubled it
9:13 · and made it 600 and she said well that's
9:16 · a little more like it i said i'll tell
9:17 · you what we'll be here all night i tell
9:18 · you what why don't you just take me back
9:20 · to your hotel room for two hours and
9:23 · i'll pay you one thousand dollars in
9:25 · cash in advance
9:27 · she said let's go so we went back to her
9:30 · hotel and she was opening her door and i
9:32 · said now i'll be right back she said
9:34 · wait a minute where do you where are you
9:35 · going i said well i don't carry a
9:37 · thousand dollars on me i'm going
9:38 · downstairs in the lobby
9:40 · cash a check i'll be right back
9:42 · she said this hotel isn't going to cash
9:44 · a check at this hour of the morning for
9:45 · a thousand dollars i said first of all i
9:48 · own 35 percent of this hotel never been
9:51 · in it in my life of course and i said
9:53 · this is a cashier certified check i said
9:56 · just like gold they'll cash it she said
9:58 · let me see this is a cashier's check why
10:00 · don't you just make it out to me i said
10:02 · are you crazy i said this check is for
10:04 · fourteen hundred dollars we already
10:06 · agreed on a thousand so she gave me 400
10:09 · change and that's what it costs
10:12 · [Applause]
10:44 · that is uh
10:46 · that's what's known as right folks yes
10:48 · double double jeopardy no that's
10:50 · that's what's known as hooking the
10:51 · hooker i'm hooking the hooker
10:53 · i wonder the checks did you spend time
10:55 · i was you know this sounds kind of
10:56 · glamorous but come on this is a it's
10:58 · illegal and it's a crime okay really i
11:01 · think being quite honest about it it
11:03 · people say it must been very glamorous
11:04 · but to me it was kind of very lonely
11:06 · despairing life constantly being on the
11:08 · run all the time for five years i was
11:10 · eventually caught in a little town in
11:12 · southern france when a stewardess
11:14 · recognized me from a photograph and i
11:17 · was arrested convicted by the french
11:20 · court sent to prison in france later
11:22 · extradited to sweden convicted by the
11:24 · swedish court sent to prison there and
11:26 · later extradited to the united states
11:28 · and sent to federal prison here in the
11:30 · united states during my stay in the
11:33 · federal prison system i escaped three
11:35 · times
11:36 · on one particular occasion i
11:38 · impersonated a prison inspector and
11:39 · walked out the front door of these
11:42 · and uh
11:45 · but i eventually served my time you bet
11:47 · you did serve your time did serve my
11:48 · time there must be a place for you in
11:50 · show business
11:52 · this is really incredible now
11:54 · what do you what do you do now
11:56 · i had a legitimate type of uh yes for
11:58 · the uh last four years i have a firm in
12:01 · houston and i do consulting work for
12:03 · large corporate banks and uh department
12:06 · stores and stuff like that
12:08 · on how not to get ripped off ah in other
12:10 · words use preventive measures and so
12:12 · forth right yeah because i've had ray
12:13 · johnson on the show a couple of times
12:14 · who served many years in prison and
12:17 · uh does that kind of work now you know
12:19 · helps people get their security and so
12:20 · forth so you're not recommending this
12:22 · kind of uh no i definitely would how did
12:24 · you pass yourself as a pediatrician well
12:26 · that's kind of tricky because i mean
12:28 · that's technical and uh well as the
12:30 · pediatrician probably uh it was really
12:33 · ended up being the most easiest which
12:34 · should have been the most difficult i
12:35 · supervised seven interns on the midnight
12:37 · to eight shift have you had any medical
12:40 · training no medical training
12:42 · and i i don't like the sight of blood
12:43 · and when i was uh when i would be called
12:46 · to the emergency room i'd walk in
12:47 · there'd be two or three interns there
12:49 · and i'd be called down and i'd walk in
12:50 · and i'd say what's the problem
12:52 · they'd say doctor we have a severing
12:53 · cardio here with a i didn't know if the
12:55 · guy broke his leg had a heart attack
12:58 · so i would say well dr carter what do
13:00 · you think well doctor i would like to
13:01 · administer 30 cc's of this dr john i
13:04 · concur jane i concur gentlemen have at
13:07 · it and that i would go
13:09 · well
13:10 · i became one of the most respected
13:12 · residents because i was the only one
13:13 · that ever allowed them to do anything
13:15 · without him
13:15 · [Laughter]
13:18 · crazy story we'll come back
13:24 · we're talking with frank abagnale i
13:26 · believe
13:27 · uh
13:29 · i find this absolutely mind-boggling
13:32 · it says on the card here you also faked
13:34 · it as a lawyer
13:35 · on a state attorney general staff can
13:37 · you talk about that yes uh i uh after
13:40 · the doctor thing went had enough
13:42 · confidence to go down and did they ever
13:43 · catch you on the doctors now you finally
13:45 · got tired of it i was i was never caught
13:47 · in any of my impersonations they found
13:49 · out about them later after i resigned
13:51 · and and left
13:52 · and uh and paid well for those right
13:56 · paid well didn't they ever say uh doctor
13:58 · could we see your certificate in
14:00 · pediatrics or your body i would present
14:02 · phony credentials
14:05 · and i went down and uh presented some
14:07 · credentials to take the bar in louisiana
14:10 · and uh i studied for it for about three
14:12 · or four months took it three times the
14:14 · third time i passed it legally passed it
14:17 · and uh went on work as a a corporate
14:20 · lawyer on the attorney general's staff
14:23 · and
14:23 · worked there for almost a year yeah won
14:26 · a number of cases while
14:30 · [Applause]
14:33 · you ever get the feeling you could end
14:34 · up prosecuting yourself
14:36 · yeah uh but that's weird airline pilot
14:38 · did you doctor did you ever have to have
14:40 · to watch drinking so that you wouldn't
14:43 · fumble or
14:44 · did you could you not drink or did you
14:46 · have to watch yourself that i i always
14:48 · did i never drank i never smoke and
14:50 · today i don't smoke and drink very
14:52 · little
14:53 · as a result you must have been running
14:54 · on a sort of adrenaline high the whole
14:56 · time i was running a lot
15:00 · do you miss the challenge of that uh
15:03 · i mean do you ever get that little
15:04 · craving and saying hey
15:06 · i've got a real scam
15:08 · that i think would be fun to do
15:11 · we must understand and i think we've
15:12 · pointed out so we don't get mail
15:13 · tomorrow we're not saying you know
15:15 · crime this is this is the kind of thing
15:17 · because it's it's amusing because you
15:19 · serve time in all of those prisons right
15:22 · i uh i feel that uh
15:25 · what i do now i find very challenging
15:27 · people sometimes pay me to go into their
15:30 · places of business and actually see if i
15:32 · can beat a system or be
15:34 · write a bad check in one particular bank
15:36 · or something short change someone what's
15:38 · the best way to tell a bad check is
15:39 · there any way
15:41 · uh in dealing with personal checks the
15:43 · best way is by the number up in the
15:44 · right-hand corner
15:46 · do we have
15:48 · was this what this is
15:49 · all right
15:51 · well this is the thing that says how to
15:52 · detect bad checks six simple steps you
15:55 · want to talk about those as we show them
15:56 · one of them is
15:58 · feel the edges what does that what does
16:00 · that mean okay this is a card that i
16:01 · design that banks and retail stores use
16:04 · one of it feel the edges is that all
16:06 · legitimate checks are perforated on at
16:08 · least one of their four sides most
16:10 · forgeries are not
16:12 · second is the code number the first
16:14 · number after this bracket on an account
16:16 · number is a federal reserve bank there
16:18 · are 12 federal reserve banks in the
16:20 · united states california is 12 all of
16:22 · the west coast is 12. a forger for
16:24 · example cashing a la check
16:27 · in la would change the number 12 on the
16:30 · check to the number zero one which would
16:32 · send it to boston that gives him six
16:34 · days three days while it gets out three
16:36 · days while it gets back six days to cast
16:38 · checks without anyone knowing yes but if
16:40 · a forger can make these kind of checks
16:42 · up with the perforations and have them
16:43 · printed how is anybody supposed to tell
16:46 · us a bad check
16:47 · well one would be this knowing your
16:49 · correct code number when you train a
16:50 · teller you teach her to know that
16:52 · california is 12. so if someone gave her
16:54 · a check it was from a california bank
16:55 · and it was 0-1 it's a forgery well why
16:57 · wouldn't the four jervis bright make it
16:59 · up and put 12 there well
17:01 · 12 would bounce in less than 24 hours ah
17:03 · this gives him a chance zero one would
17:05 · take six days to find hip what else now
17:07 · mag
17:10 · this is magnetic ink and magnetic ink is
17:12 · a dull ink and most forges cannot obtain
17:15 · it magnetic ink will not reflect under
17:17 · light and so the forger
17:20 · uses standard black ink and when the
17:22 · teller goes like this with the check
17:23 · under her light she sees a glare or
17:25 · shine off of this number she knows it's
17:27 · standard black ink
17:29 · now how many uh stores and people in
17:32 · stores are trained i can see in banks
17:35 · but how many people in the clerks and so
17:37 · forth are trained to do this i designed
17:39 · this card about a year ago over a
17:41 · million of them have been sold they're
17:43 · used by retailers banks are used in
17:45 · schools for educating distributive
17:47 · education students and students going
17:49 · into the banking retail business no it
17:51 · says useful things that mean i review
17:52 · but it says require proper
17:54 · identification now anybody could go and
17:56 · print up a phony driver's license can
17:58 · they not and put their picture on it and
17:59 · that's true but most people don't have
18:01 · to do that they can just take someone's
18:03 · driver's license not too long ago
18:05 · demonstrating for kroger stores i walked
18:07 · into a store and uh
18:10 · showed them that i went through an
18:11 · express lane wrote a check with my dr my
18:14 · check for ten dollars and gave the girl
18:16 · the store manager's driver's license
18:18 · well not only was he not me but he was
18:20 · black and i'm white and she cashed the
18:22 · check
18:23 · [Music]
18:24 · a little lacks there we'll be right back
18:28 · [Music]
18:28 · [Applause]

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