Posted on 09/20/2022 8:26:56 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
I believe you are wrong about this, but I'm not sure that's even relevant at this point in the process. That's a much bigger issue lurking beneath the surface that could have huge implications later.
Maybe I'm missing something here. Have you seen any information to suggest that the Trump legal team is trying to keep documents that originated in the U.S. government from the FBI on the basis that they are not classified?
The SM is to determine which, if any, siezed documents should be withheld from the DOJ.
Exactly. But the basis of withholding the seized documents from the DOJ is that they are subject to one or more of Donald Trump's legal privileges, not whether they are "classified" or "non-classified." The silence of the Trump lawyers about providing anything related to this particular point could have major legal implications down the road.
There may be other documents that he chooses to protect but not if they're classified.
Exactly. THAT is the primary purpose of having a Special Master appointed in the first place. The SM is there to ensure that Donald Trump's constitutional rights are protected. The subject of "classified" or "non-classified" documents may be an important legal matter, but it is not related to his constitutional rights as a U.S. citizen.
It appears they’re trying to keep them because they may, in the future, want to make that claim should Trump be indicted.
Dearie is telling them he’ll assume documents marked as classified really are classified unless Trump claims otherwise. Now.
If they’re classified, they belong to the government and DOJ gets access.
But the basis of withholding the seized documents from the DOJ is that they are subject to one or more of Donald Trump's legal privileges, not whether they are "classified" or "non-classified."
Both are in play, but there’s no way any of Trump’s privileges override the Executive’s right, and need, to have access to classified national security information.
The SM is there to ensure that Donald Trump's constitutional rights are protected.
He’s also looking at the government’s duty to pursue justice.
The subject of "classified" or "non-classified" documents may be an important legal matter, but it is not related to his constitutional rights as a U.S. citizen.
None of his rights are going to keep the Executive from accessing classified documents.
If he wants to say they’ve been declassified, fine. But he doesn’t want to do that - he wants the benefit of saying it without the risks. Dearie’s not having it.
Again, there may be other categories of documents but this thread is about the ones marked classified.
Absolutely false. Trump's legal protections under the U.S. Constitution override any and all "Executive's right" considerations.
He's also looking at the government's duty to pursue justice.
What does that even mean, in this context?
None of his rights are going to keep the Executive from accessing classified documents.
If this is the case, then the primary consideration here is whether the "classified documents" at Mar-a-Lago were the only existing copies of said documents. I would find it astonishing if this was true.
Here's what I am almost certain is going on in this fiasco:
1. The DOJ/FBI/CIA/Beltway "administrative state" is trying to fabricate one or more criminal charges against Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump has records in his possession that would exonerate him against any such criminal charges.
3. The DOJ/FBI is trying to seize those records for the purpose of destroying them. They are using the same "national security" bullsh!t that served as the foundation of the "Russia collusion" surveillance against Trump as the basis for taking them away from him so he can't use them in his defense.
4. Trump's right to present evidence in his defense is absolute under the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is true regardless of whether such evidence is "classified" or "non-classified."
5. In addition, documents currently (or previously) in Trump's possession would almost certainly be covered by his attorney-client privilege if they have been shared with his legal counsel.
Items #4 and #5 above are absolutely critical. Trump's legal team has presented nothing related to the "classification" of any documents at Mar-a-Lago because it isn't relevant in a criminal case.
What has happened here is that the DOJ/FBI has painted itself into a corner. They claim they need documents in Trump's possession as a matter of "national security," but now that they are in a legal process they must be prepared to present details of these documents in a court of law -- which undermines their "national security" claim in the first place.
I would add that the actions of the DOJ/FBI over the last 6+ years -- and even as recently as the raid at Mar-a-Lago -- have also completely undermined any claim they have in this regard.
The judge who originally appointed the Special Master took a lot of criticism from so-called "legal experts" (including from Trump's own U.S. Attorney General, William Barr), but her one statement about dismissing the DOJ/FBI claims about national security interests is the most relevant point of the whole case. She said, in effect -- "You can't come into my courtroom with a straight face and claim that these are highly sensitive documents that are a threat to the national security of the United States if not protected ... when reports about the contents of these documents are showing up on CNN and the front page of the New York Times on a daily basis."
You’re ignoring the key point. If the documents are classified they aren’t his and he has no claims on them.
The current Executive is the only one that can claim executive privilege and Trump can’t claim attorney/client privilege on classified government documents.
If Trump wants to assert any privilege he needs to claim the documents aren’t really classified.
The guy was the President of the United States. If he had them in his possession in the past, then there would have been no restriction his use and dissemination of them at the time.
So the whole "classified vs. non-classified" discussion is really not relevant. There could be 10 million copies of these documents in various places all over the world right now, as long as they were shared with the permission of the President of the United States at the time he was President.
And once they are all over the place in the hands of various people, the DOJ/FBI can never credibly claim that it is an urgent matter of national security for the DOJ/FBI to retain sole possession of them.
So Trump has to go ahead and reveal his defense to the government while they get to hide behind hidden documents and redactions? Makes sense I guess.
It’s absolutely relevant because if they’re classified they are unquestionably presidential records and therefore the government’s property. And handing out 10 million copies doesn’t declassify them.
You’ll notice the attorneys aren’t saying it’s irrelevant.
What is the legal basis of that statement?
You’ll notice the attorneys aren’t saying it’s irrelevant.
The fact that they're not addressing the classification issue in their legal filings speaks volumes. They're not denying that Trump was involved with the assassination of JFK, either -- right?
There’s a defined process for declassification and handing out copies isn’t part of it.
The President has the right to declassify at will but just distributing copies doesn’t do it.
Legally, at how many copies does de facto declassification occur?
The fact that they're not addressing the classification issue in their legal filings speaks volumes.
The fact that they were trying to avoid addressing it speaks volumes. They know it’s key and they want to keep all their options open by not taking a stand.
That’s why Dearie zeroed in on it and is forcing their hand.
The President of the United States can share "classified" information at will -- by definition. The term "classified" doesn't appear anywhere in the U.S. Constitution.
That’s why Dearie zeroed in on it and is forcing their hand.
Is he forcing their hand, or simply laying out the terms of a specific point of fact to establish a stipulation moving forward?
The Special Master isn't there to determine this kind of legal matter as it relates to the possession of "classified" documents by Donald Trump. He's there to determine if the documents that may or may not be classified can be considered "classified" so as to determine that the FBI has a legal right to take possession of them. All he's saying to the Trump legal team is: "If you don't present a compelling case that these documents are not classified, we will assume they are classified for the purpose of these proceedings."
This whole point is something of a comical sideshow if two of the reported angles of the Mar-a-Lago raid were, in fact, true:
1. The safe where the "documents crucial to national security" were allegedly kept was empty.
2. The records seized by the FBI included EMPTY folders with "classified" markings on them.
**Judge Raymond Dearie**, the special master overseeing the seizure of documents from Mar-a-Lago, signaled on Tuesday to lawyers for former President Donald Trump that if they don’t make a case that any of the documents were declassified,(***** he would determine that they’re classified****)
Sounding like judge Roy Bean
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.