Posted on 01/17/2021 3:46:04 PM PST by gwjack
Ah yes... here’s what I found out about those type antennas. There are those which are very, VERY good, and those which are simply imitation junk. Now having said that, I’ve got a buddy and one of his kids is a “special” DoD type. The kid pointed him to a good but affordable antenna type of the sort your referring to, and he bought it. Apparently, it performs QUITE well. I haven’t seen it yet, nor do I know exactly where he got it from or what it cost. BUT, if/when I get those details I can pass them on to you here. :-)
Please do. I’m quite pleased with the Nagoya but I made sure to get the genuine article and not a cheap knock off. The mobile mag mount model works quite well, too.
I got 3db of gain out of one and 5 from the other.
Appreciate the help.
L
Ya know... about hitting that repeater from your house. We have a DMR repeater which is a mere 5 miles west from where we live. I can RARELY key that repeater. I think it’s because of where it’s located. It’s on a building which is only 50 feet tall or so and its elevation is almost identical to ours. BUT, we’re in a known “bad spot” for both VHF and UHF propogation. It’s low and obstructions coming out of the “hole” (so to speak) can be excessive depending on the direction.
There’s an analog repeater another five miles farther west which is on top of a taller building (a municipal or police department building). The elevation must make a difference, because never is there a time when I can’t key that repeater on both 2M and 70cm freqs.
There’s another DMR repeater however which is 10 miles away to the east. It’s 50 meters higher elevation than us NOT including the antenna tower, which from the looks of it is a couple of hundred feet “maybe”. I can key that repeater “most” of the time.
Then, there’s yet another analog repeater 23 miles to the south east where ground elevation is 50 meters below ours, AND there’s a 800 foot ridge in between us, BUT... that repeater is on top of a 1600 foot tower and it quite literally provides UHF coverage to a 60 mile (approx) area. I did a rough “estimation” one evening, and even though I can’t see it, my signal will cut through the tops of the trees across the road but after that, it’s basically LOS (Line Of Sight) to that particular repeater, so keying it is NEVER a problem.
Having said this, DMR is complex. Tier-2 (WAN - Wide Area Network) depends on Internet being available and functioning. The repeaters are Internet connected. We DO use that sometimes, but tend to stick to local talkgroups as those never leave the repeater, so it’s at least as “local” as an analog repeater. But repeaters in general are something that the owner could “shut down”. IOW, just like Internet, it could just “go away” without us having any say in it. Because of this, HF (old school “shortwave”) is probably the most reliable and consistent. It doesn’t use a repeater and “typically” you can push ground wave propogation a couple of hundred miles... so comms in a local area are virtually assured... providing nobody is jamming you. IF you’re going to consider HF, bear in mind that the FCC amateur technician’s license only permits usage of 28.3 through 28.5MHz for voice. A good portion of the rest of the spectrum can however be used for data and/or radio-TTY...and nowadays you can get a Raspberry Pi, or a desktop PC to do data for you. There ARE still Morse code people out there, and more of that gets passed around HF freqs than anything else. But the entry level license (tech) only lets you use a very small section of that band for voice. Moreover this, data rates are “almost” always restricted to 300bps or less. This isn’t a legal restriction, but a limitation imposed by the bandwidth of a typical sideband channel... which is 6KHz as I remember. There are other mechanisms by which to increase data rates over HF such as combining both sidebands into a single 12khz channel. I’ve actually got an HF base station that WILL do that. But I’m not sure if it’s legal, or even if it’s a proprietary feature. Also...and this is probably the least attractive thing about HF. People can go out and buy “cheap Chinese” radios at prices which are very, VERY affordable...as you’ve well discovered. HF solutions, whether you go mobile or fixed, tend to hover right around $1500 at the moment just for the initial investment of the radio, tuner, power supply, feed line, antenna, and any associated connectors and/or accessories. It’s simply a high initial investment. BUT... once you’re set up, you can key up and talk to somebody 100 miles away, no matter what.
OH...and BTW... I’ve got some Baofeng HTs... BF-F8HPs and a UV-5R that I use for APRS. I’ve also got some Retevis/Ailunce HD1 DMR HTs. It’s my opinion that the Retevis radio is a much, MUCH better radio. It’s simply better built, more rugged, and simply more capable in every way. There’s really no comparison between the two except that they DO have dual band VHF/UHF analog in common. Aside from that, they’re very, VERY different. I definitely like the Retevis /Ailunce better. :-)
Empty threat. The FCC doesn’t even have enough people to enforce the rules in the Amateur Radio Band, much less track down and prosecute all those who ALREADY violate the rules of it.
ICOM.
Sure thing...as soon as I get details, I’ll pass it on. I “meant” to ask him the other day and I should see him in a few days anyway... so I’ll get details. I really, REALLY like the Smiley Antennas “Slim Duck” 2 meter. You’d really have to abuse it to break it. It’s a “rubber duck” type antenna, but simply built well. They’re only $25 each or so. BUT, they’re tuned for 2 meter. I have actually used it for 70cm, and as far as working... it “worked”. But I’d probably cringe to see SWR from doing that, and it CAN’T be good for the transmitter. I DO like the antenna though.
Yes... avoiding fake Nagoya antennas IS a problem. I’ve been through that, and I’ve seen others who “thought” they were buying a Nagoya, only to realize they got something else, falsely advertised. As you probably know, that’s a big, BIG problem at the moment.
Right now, we’re testing a dual band (VHF/UHF) antenna made by Retevis which is advertised for use with the Ailunce HD1. However, it’s an SMA-F 50 ohm antenna and so will work with any SMA-M radio... including Baofeng and others. Here’s the link at Retevis - https://www.retevis.com/dual-band-sma-f-long-antenna-for-ailunce-hd1/ It looks a whole lot bigger than it actually is. It’s “almost” 15 inches long, and that fat spot in the middle is where it unscrews into two pieces. I can’t speak for ruggedness “yet”, but so far, performance “seems” good.
Don’t be fooled. The FCC rarely tracks anybody down. They have a LARGE volunteer organization comprised of extremely grouchy, old, mostly retired, very SMART men ... all amateur licensees... with time on their hands, and all the required gear to hunt you down and positively ID you. They’ll quite gladly do all the “leg work” for the FCC, and by the time the FCC shows up at your door to a Deputy Sheriff, there’s not a whole lot to discuss.
I know.... just fat-fingered.
After reading the “specs” on that Retevis HT, I meant to mention... Be careful with doing things like configuring FRS/GMRS or MURS on that radio. Technically it’s ILLEGAL. I had a word on this in a previous posting... https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3926299/posts?page=169#169
The thing to remember with these radios is that what you “can” do isn’t necessarily what you “should” do. A lot of people bought Baofengs for their kids...because they’re CHEAP and relatively powerful... turned them loose and thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread!... because no matter WHERE the kid went, the parent could reach the kid. THEN came the visit from the FCC, because the parents didn’t know ANYTHING about the radios, and they just left them programmed from the factory and transmitted on unauthorized freqs. Unless one “plays by the rules”, it’s advisable to do everything to NOT garner attention.... which generally means to keep power outputs as low as possible on frequencies which aren’t liable to get any attention... such as MURS. It’s VERY easy to irritate the HAM community. Just last week, “somebody” in my AO ... for some reason... transmitted AFSK modulated data through a known repeater. Within minutes, I saw chatter about it on an e-mail group that I’m part of for packet radio. They were very, VERY much interested in knowing WHO did this. Whoever it was only transmitted twice, over a few minutes. They weren’t heard after that. However, if they had kept it up for several minutes... or maybe a little longer... these same guys would FIND them and quite happily turn them over to the FCC. So IF we’re going to play the “unlicensed game”, low power and NOT garnering undue attention is the goal. :-)
Ya know... you sort of bring up something I’ve been thinking about lately. I’ve got one of the Ailunce HD1s here assigned to my IBA, where I’ve employed a 1m feed line, which threads from where the radio is mounted in a MOLLE connected pouch, around to the back left of the IBA... where an NA-771 antenna is mounted UNDER the MOLLE loops. HOWEVER... it’s plainly observable that if/when I key this radio, that I MYSELF will be almost directly in front of that antenna. I’m not overly concerned at the 3.5W we keep them normally set at, but I AM curious as to how it’s going to perform if I insert the rear SAPI plate. The plates aren’t usually IN the IBA. But you’ve brought up a good point. I NEED to test this with a few in my “peculiar circle”. We KNOW what range is on our HTs in standard configuration, but I think we now need to test using our mounted configurations... on IBA... because it “might” make a difference. It’s worth knowing anyway. :-)
ROFL! Name three of those extremely grouchy, old, mostly retired, very SMART men who'll take the time and incur their own expense to track someone down.
Go ahead. I'll wait.
There is a huge difference between tracking down someone with a CB (easy enough to do) vs. a Ham with VHF/UHF/HF capabilities. I know this because I'm a Ham.
Absent tracking stations that can triangulate into a general area, it's an extremely difficult task -- especially for HF. Skywave is so different from groundwave it'd take me all day to explain it.
I can be S9+40 into Italy on 40m while a friend less than 20 miles away cannot hear me.
I can be Full Quieting/Full Scale on 2m FM all the way up to Milwaukee, more than 120 miles from my home on any given day making it equally as difficult to find me. And then just like that *POOF* I'm off the air and undetectable.
Those extremely grouchy, old, mostly retired, very SMART men ... all amateur licensees would rather change frequency to continue their ragchew than hunt anyone down.
Only IDIOTS stay on frequency wasting their time yelling and screaming at someone to "shut up" or "get off the air" much to the abuser's amusement.
I bought two Nagoya's for my Baofeng UV82HP's and can now key W9DUP from my sofa in my family room. I think you remember where I am now, and that's quite a feat don't you think?
I think GMRS will do but as with anything there is a cost and learning curve. Search for GMRS and repeaters for GMRS service if you need the 40 mile distance. This is not ham radio but similar with only a small fee to license yourself and family. Digital service (text messaging over the air, not through the 'net) is possible.
I’ve obviously tweaked or “triggered” you with my comments. Sorry about that. I have little to no control over how you react. IF you’re a HAM, then you should be at least aware of the FCC’s VMP... Volunteer Monitor Program. Since you’re a HAM, I’m sure you’ll have no problem looking into it.
I was actually planning on using GMRS on our property and just paid the $70 for the license. I'm not getting any younger but still have a lot of trees to cut down to clear land and for firewood so I was going to use it for emergency purposes. "Help, I've fallen(a tree on me) and I can't get up."
Most certified GMRS radios probably wouldn't reach every inch of the property as we have terrain here and lots of trees(to cut down).
We're way out in the boonies and I doubt anyone else within range would even be on a GMRS, except maybe on the weekends. A lot of pieces of land out here are owned by people from out of town. They use them for recreational purposes, hunting, shooting, riding around the dirt roads on four wheelers etc. I don't go into the woods much on the weekends and never to cut trees. The properties on each side of me are owned by out of towners. They're coming down for R&R so I'm not going to make them listen to a chain saw all day.
We are up against the National Forest though and I don't know if the forest rangers monitor GMRS or not but I'm not too worried about it. Been here ten years and seen a forest ranger go by once or twice. Like I said, it's mostly for emergency purposes. We won't be having long conversations on them. I do have a pair of cheap little gmrs/frs radios. I could keep one with me and ditch the Baofeng if someone shows up. Whadya mean? This is my radio. Just a little toy and it's certified. One use I have for them here is to mark the contour of the property at different intervals but that will be my and my son within line of site, few hundred feet max so the little radios will do that. The Baofeng would be to keep one in the house near a window and another I'd carry with me. If the tractor breaks down at the bottom of the hill near the road, I'd say drive down here and get me. I have atherosclerosis aka hardening of the veins and cannot walk up that hill or I could but I'd have to take a lot of sit down breaks. If I run out of diesel in the back corner, I'd tell the boy to throw the fuel can in the cart and bring it to me. Then of course if I get injured and can't walk. All doubtful but I'm getting cautious as I get older, especially with the atherosclerosis.
The hams in San Diego had a monthly transmitter hunt. The geographical boundaries were the San Diego county line. Participants gathered at Sears in Chula Vista or a hilltop in east San Diego(Tierra Santa). Odometer reading were recorded. The transmitter went on at 5 PM. Upon finding the transmitter, your time was recorded and odometer reading as well. The score was the sum of miles and minutes. Low score wins.
Having described the rules, I enjoyed a "win" using my doppler DF and the privilege of hosting the next month. I found the transmitter on the north side of Presidio Park in a bush. The following month, my site was in the open. It was on the beach north of the Del Coronado Hotel. Yaesu FT-221 on a car battery. 11 element beam pointed at downtown San Diego to maximize multi-path. Pulsed to mess with the folks using "null" antenna techniques. Audio with broad "warble" to keep all the dop scan LEDs illuminated. 3 1/2 hours before the first hunter arrived.
We had good technology in 1978. It wasn't expensive. Lots of "home brew" stuff. A large, active ham community in San Diego. Much of what we enjoyed at that time has faded into amusements on the internet.
I don’t recall the current permitted specs for GMRS... but I DO remember the last time I looked at them, I thought that IF a person had a decent antenna at 50 to 100 feet above the rest of the terrain, that you could quite possibly cover 10 miles or more. Also... I “think” the GMRS license fee recently came down to $35.
One thing about GMRS is that it operates entirely well within the UHF (70cm) freq range. It’s a LOT more susceptible to weather... fog, mixed precipitation, snow... etc.
But I understand that a lot of people get GOOD service from GMRS, and there are some nice radios being sold which are type certified for GMRS. I’m sure you’ll get some level of usefulness out of it. :-)
Just paid $70 for gmrs license last week.
You've obviously missed me openly laughing at you in my opening comment. ROFL!!!
IF you’re a HAM, then you should be at least aware of the FCC’s VMP... Volunteer Monitor Program. Since you’re a HAM, I’m sure you’ll have no problem looking into it.
I've been a Ham for over 15 years. If you're a Ham (doubtful) then you'd know the VMP is a watered down joke of an effort to "clean up" the Ham radio bands. It's about as useful as tits on a bull. You'd also know the FCC's enforcement actions have dwindled to near ZERO and it takes a Herculean effort to get an action taken against even the most egregious rule breaker in the Amateur Radio bands.
Wow... I’ll have to say... you’re probably the most arrogant bastard I’ve encountered in a month or so. Maybe in another month I’ll encounter a true asshole which exceeds your own ability. But I doubt it. 73. :-)
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