DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE WANTS TO MAKE IRAN AND NORTH KOREA RICH {Down with Mullahs}

Newsweek ^ | 26 August 2019 | Tom Connor

[Common Sense 101]

That’s kind of spurious isn’t it? Is Egypt a safe place to visit for Christians and Jews? Is there an absence of Islamic law there?

Talking about spurious... you're initial contention was that you couldn't think of a single example where an Islamic state has been overthrown by its people or an outside force; I provided one. The people threw out the Muslim Brotherhood, who were attempting to convert Egypt to a more theocratic state. No one, including the President, is attempting to convert the population to Christianity or end Sharia laws in those countries, but thanks for changing the argument once you were provided an answer. Been hanging around libtards lately, as this is a common practice they use when losing an argument...?

[Cronos]

Let me detail that for you

you said With respect, how would we know that? I can’t think of a single example in all of history of an Islamic state being overthrown by it’s own people, or changed peacefully by an outside force. I also see no evidence that the Iranian people in general don’t absolutely love the dog turd country they live in. Sure, ‘some’ of the people don’t like it, there’s always reports of protests here and there throughout the years, but that doesn’t equal anything close to a revolution.

#1 You say "how would we know that? I can’t think of a single example in all of history of an Islamic state being overthrown by it’s own people, or changed peacefully by an outside force." -- and that's my point - for a real change in Iran, we need to push them away from Islam. They are already heading in that direction (away from Islam), and when that happens, they will not be the enemy any more

#2 you are mixing up "love for country" with "love for regime"

Just as Americans would still love their country even when it was under the Obama regime, the same way Iranians love their country even if it is under the Ayatollah's regime and - since they have millennia of history, they see the past before the Islamic regimes

you say "sure, some don't like it" - but fail to see what they don't like - it's more than the regime, it's the very fact of Islam ruling over Iran that a significant number do not like

#3 Then you said it is a dog-turd country and wonder why they still love this country -- that is because you don't grasp that their love for the country is about the country's long history, before Islam and is not about allegiance to the Ayatollahs or even to Islam

#3 The Iranians of today certainly hold no kinship back to 2000 BC - genetically and historically you are wrong. The Iranians in the south-east are descendents of the Elamites of 2000 BC and the rest of the Iranians, whether Laz or Mazdani or Baluchi or persian or Kurd are genetically and linguistically descendents of the Indo-Irani speakers who came down about 1000 BC and formed their kingdoms around 700 BC (the Elamite kingdom continued until it was first absorbed by Babylonia and then by the Achaemenids

#4 Even in the 3rd century BC the Persians were driven to enslave the Greeks or kill every last one of them, even without the motivating force of Islam. -- this is false - I would suggest you read your Herodotus.

Generally speaking, the Achaemenid policy towards conquered peoples was basically along the lines of, “WE may defeat you or you may submit or you may be an ally - you may keep your culture, keep your language, keep your identity, keep your traditions, keep your religion, maybe even keep your government; all we ask is that you acknowledge our king as your king of kings and pay regular reasonable tribute to him.”

That's the Achaemenid empire in the 4th century BC

any Greeks actually were conquered by the Achaemenid Persians and they retained their culture. Before the Greco-Persian Wars began, the Persians already ruled most of the Greek cities of Asia Minor. In fact, the spark that set off the first Persian invasion of mainland Greece was actually the Ionian Revolt, in which the Greek cities of Asia Minor rebelled against their Persian rulers. The cities of Athens and Eretria sent soldiers to help them and they burned the regional capital city of Sardis, which caused the Persian invasions of the Achaen lands -- it was akin to 9/11 but as if Chicago was attacked instead of NYC

After the Persians began their invasion, many Greek city-states of the mainland simply submitted to the Persians without a fight, including very important and prominent city-states such as Thebes. There were even many Greeks who actively fought on the side of the Persians during the Greco-Persian Wars. Queen Artemisia I of Karia was a Greek queen who ruled the Persian satrapy of Karia. She famously fought on the side of the Persians in the fateful Battle of Salamis in September 480 BC. Likewise, Theban hoplites fought fiercely for the Persians against their fellow Greeks in the Battle of Plataia in August 479 BC.

And talking of Herodotus - the great GREEK history - he lived c. 484 BC – c. 425 BC and wrote the histories our main source of information about the Greco-Persian wars, he as born and grew up in the city of Halikarnassos. At that time, Halikarnassos was part of the Persian satrapy of Karia and was ruled by Artemisia’s grandson Lygdamis II of Karia. In spite of him having grown up in a territory under ostensibly Persian authority, he was not killed, nor his culture touched in any way

[KobraKai]

I’m not trying to ‘win’ an argument, but clearly you are. You gave an example of a pyhric victory is all I’m saying. Congrats on your win.

[Cronos]

And to note - Egypt is still bad for local Christians, but they are surviving and surviving better now than under Morsi

The local Egyptians rose up and threw out the Muslim Brotherhood, as Common Sense pointed out

Egypt is a safe-ISH place to visit for both Christians and Jews with the following caveats:

1. if you are a brown skinned Christian or Jew - whether Egyptian Christian or Arab Christian or Indian or FIlipino etc it is "safer" as in you won't be targeted by pickpockets or salesmen. Probably less of a target for Muslim jihadis as well.

2. if you are a white skinned or worse, blonde, whatever your religion, you will stand out. It's safe enough but it's not Talinn

3. If you are an Israeli passport holder you can visit and many DO visit - once you're in, then you fall under categories 1 or 2 above

Finally you ask about "absence of Islamic law" - no, there is Sharia "as the basis of the law" - so, while the law is technically secular, there is always the possibility that sharia will trump it. So far the army dictator Sisi doesn't allow that.

[_Jim]

re: “I see NO loosening no the grip of its people or its policy in EITHER country.”

Are you even old enough to remember the Soviet Union?

[KobraKai]

Ok ok good grief. I can only do so much on my little tablet here at work. I have read Herodotus, its been awhile but I’ve read it and History of the Ancient World and numerous books on Alexander. Its all subservience and enslavement. Submit, pay tribute or die, much like modern gangsters. Alexander did the same thing. But bravo on a great post, you ‘win’ too!

[KC Burke]

Whow, whow — I call too many watchings of CGI Battle of the 300 cartoons.

I know we are Western Civilization and I too have read a lot of Greek and Roman history but get a wider view. Pick up Persian Fire by Tom Holland and get a little balance to your world view.

I had a fellow I worked with in the 80s who was a civil engineer and business owner. Due to family business he repatriated to Iran and we had long talks about it. It is certainly a big IF that the Ayatollahs won’t rule forever, but I’m with Trump on this.

[Cronos]

it’s not about winning or losing.

300 was a great piece of fiction with no mooring in reality (but it wasn’t supposed to be, no more than the Da Vinci code)

The Achaemenids - 500 BC to 300 BC were actually benevolent and far, far better than any of the other ancient empires - probably any empire until the USA today.

They may have technically been Persian but the capital was in Mesopotamia and the main language of instruction was Akkadian.

Now the later Sassanids (224 AD to 640 AD) were more bloodthirsty and started their own religious wars but they were still far better than Islam.

Iranians increasingly see themselves as Iranis first and Muslims second, if at all.

This should be encouraged

[KobraKai]

That was very informative, thank you.

[KobraKai]

That was very informative, thank you.