Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Michigan Appeals Court Shows Difference Between Threat and Use of Deadly Force
Ammoland ^ | 23 August, 2019 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 08/26/2019 3:42:07 AM PDT by marktwain

Siwatu-Salama Ra

This is the case of Siwatu-Salama Ra, who was sentenced to two years in prison after using the display of a gun to protect herself, her mother and her daughter. Ra was pregnant at the time of the event on 16 July, 2017.

The other party involved, Channell Harvey, contacted the police first, three hours before Ra did. The Detroit police assumed that Channell Harvey, the first person reporting the incident, was the victim. This is a common occurrence in law enforcement, which is why there may be a race to the phones to be the first to report an incident to the police.

Channel Harvey had recorded Ra with her phone, showing her displaying her defensive firearm. Ra had a valid Michigan concealed carry permit. Channel was reportedly on probation for felony assault in another case.

Both parties claimed the other had threatened the other. Several organizations, including the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA, as well as several on the Left, defended Ra's use of non-deadly force.

At the trial, the judge mistakenly ruled that merely displaying a gun was the use of deadly force.  That goes against common sense and several precedents.

This varies from state to state; in Arizona, it is clear merely displaying a firearm is not the same as using deadly force. In Arizona, the threat of deadly force is not the same as using deadly force.

The Michigan Court of Appeals found the legal distinction is important and has meaning.

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: banglist; belongsinbloggers; mi; secondamendment; selfdefense
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-30 next last
It is common sense for the defensive display of a firearm to be legal as less than lethal force. It is the most common use of a firearm in defense, it has the most likelihood of stopping aggression through deterrence.
1 posted on 08/26/2019 3:42:07 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Isn’t ‘brandishing’ a firearm a crime in some places?

I guess you are just supposed to ‘whip it out’ and kill them with no warning....


2 posted on 08/26/2019 3:54:27 AM PDT by ArtDodger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ArtDodger

That’s the Tuco rule of engagement. :)


3 posted on 08/26/2019 4:02:58 AM PDT by xp38
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ArtDodger
Yes, "brandishing" could be illegal in places. In Arizona, it is aggravated assault to use a gun in a crime, even if it is not fired.

The key is whether the "brandishing" is jusified or not. This case was all about affirming that merely showing a gun, in order to defuse a threat, is not the use of deadly force. It is the threat of deadly force.

The appeals court showed clear precedence that mere display of a deadly weapon, even pointing it at someone, is not the same as the use of deadly force.

4 posted on 08/26/2019 4:04:28 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

Another filthy court.


5 posted on 08/26/2019 4:14:53 AM PDT by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bonemaker
Another filthy court.

? Did not read the article, did you?

6 posted on 08/26/2019 4:16:30 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

More black-robed tyranny.


7 posted on 08/26/2019 4:17:33 AM PDT by wastedyears (The left would kill every single one of us and our families if they knew they could get away with it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

How would you have wanted the court to have ruled?


8 posted on 08/26/2019 4:22:53 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Lucky

I would have wanted the *jury* to decide guilt.

Did the black-robed tyrant decide that she was guilty just for drawing a firearm?


9 posted on 08/26/2019 4:26:40 AM PDT by wastedyears (The left would kill every single one of us and our families if they knew they could get away with it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

The first judge....what, did you think I was talking about the appeals court?


10 posted on 08/26/2019 4:39:51 AM PDT by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Bonemaker

Thanks. Now all is clear.


11 posted on 08/26/2019 4:43:26 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

So, is she going to prison for two years, or is that what the court reversed?


12 posted on 08/26/2019 4:53:50 AM PDT by cuban leaf (We're living in Dr. Zhivago but without the love triangle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf

Dude, read the article. Just like I did.

CC


13 posted on 08/26/2019 5:04:41 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (My cats are more amusing than 200 channels worth of TV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Celtic Conservative

I did read the article. I confess I skimmed parts. The story meandered way too much.


14 posted on 08/26/2019 5:08:28 AM PDT by cuban leaf (We're living in Dr. Zhivago but without the love triangle)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Arizona was one of the states that saw the confusion juries and judges were in when a "defensive display" of a firearm could be confused with being the aggressor and threatening the use of "deadly force."

So this is what they put in place:

Revised Arizona Jury Instruction (RAJI 4th)

AZ RAJI4th 4.21 − Justification: Defensive Display of a Firearm

The defendant is justified in defensively displaying a firearm if a reasonable person would have believed that physical force was immediately necessary to protect himself/herself against the [use] [attempted use] of unlawful [physical force] [deadly physical force].

The defendant was not justified in displaying a firearm if:

[The defendant intentionally provoked another person to [use] [attempt to use] unlawful physical force.]

[The defendant used a firearm during the commission of a (list serious offense from A.R.S. § 13-706) (list violent crime from A.R.S. § 13-901.03)].

“Defensive display of a firearm” includes:

Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.

Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another’s use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.

Placing the person’s hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport. [The defendant was not required to defensively display a firearm before using physical force or threatening physical force that was otherwise justified.]

The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not defensively display a firearm. If the State fails to carry this burden, then you must find the defendant not guilty of the charge.


15 posted on 08/26/2019 5:19:35 AM PDT by KC Burke (If all the world is a stage, I would like to request my lighting be adjusted.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Celtic Conservative

The article does not provide a clear explanation of Ra’s legal status. So much so that one of the comments below the article reads “So what is the status of the case. Is she out? Are they headed for a new trial, or…??”

Her Wikipedia page, though also imprecise and poorly written, implies that the conviction was overturned though it does not state that she has been released.


16 posted on 08/26/2019 5:38:41 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie (Ca)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf

I concede that the article was somewhat less that concise. Glad the appeals court got it right. It sets a valuable precedent for concealed carriers in Michigan.

CC


17 posted on 08/26/2019 5:39:43 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (My cats are more amusing than 200 channels worth of TV)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

At the trial, the judge mistakenly ruled that merely displaying a gun was the use of deadly force.


So, per the judge, if you make the firearm visible, you might as well shoot everyone observing it to death.
Yeah. That’s a good legal precedent.


18 posted on 08/26/2019 5:45:54 AM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cuban leaf
She has been out on bail for a year or more.

The case was sent back to the local court.

They probably will not hold another trial, but I don't know if they will or not.

19 posted on 08/26/2019 5:46:54 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: marktwain

“At the trial, the judge mistakenly ruled that merely displaying a gun was the use of deadly force. That goes against common sense and several precedents.”

I would not describe that as a “mistake”. Maybe “ideology showing” but not “mistake”.


20 posted on 08/26/2019 6:08:24 AM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-30 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson