Posted on 11/22/2018 3:08:09 PM PST by Eleutheria5
What you say could work, if normal, rational people were in charge. There are cultural, religious, ethnic, linguistic and historical bonds between Jews and Arabs going back to Biblical times. And I know from my own experience that friendships between Jews and Arabs are not only possible, but in fact exist to some extent. But normal, rational people are not in charge of the PA, Hizbollah or Hamas, and they have an Iranian sugar daddy that makes it worth their while to be insane. So peace will not happen in our time.
“When you have a rabid dog it’s just best to put some distance as well as physical barriers between you and it.”
If you have a rabid dog you shoot it dead. There is no recovery from rabies just as there is no recovery from full blown Islam.
It's not Al-Quds anymore than it was ever Palestine. It is and will always be Jerusalem!
Yeah. Rabies in this case is an analogy for Islam. There are many analogies that can be made. The plain and ugly truth is that it’s a lie sent by Satan. Can Satan’s lies be cured? Christ proved it can be. The person crucified to the left of Jesus shows that not everyone wants to be cured.
“You got to love the symbolism of settling them on Bikini Atoll.”
Burka Atoll.
That reminds me of a Rush quip. It was something like, “Bikini Atoll. That’s where Fox News gets the blondes.” He made me laugh out loud.
The Sinai wouldn’t work. Very little water or arable farmland. Besides, it’s Egyptian territory and I doubt if that impoverished country would be keen on taking in another million people with all the infrastructure, etc., that would be required. You’re right about the West Bank, though (where I lived for the better part of a decade). There’s no place to put a lot of people without taking land from other Palestinians. There is no peace because the radicals don’t want peace. (they control everything - On a couple of occasions Arabs near us were dragged out of their homes and butchered for advocating moderation). They want to destroy Israel. The Bible does, however, describe a leader who comes on the scene and is able to negotiate a 7-year peace treaty. When that happens, as the Bible says, run for the hills.
This doesn’t mean the peace process is over.
The next time the Israelis and Palestinians meet to negotiate will be after Hamas sends another round of rockets into Israel and Israel finally decides to retaliate, after which Hamas will immediately call for a ceasefire.
This happens often. However, the last time it happened someone in Bibi Netanyahu’s coalition threatened to quit unless Bibi stopped surrendering. But he didn’t quit. The coalition is still intact. So Bibi will be available for his next surrender. Which could happen next week, or maybe tomorrow.
The only "peace plan" acceptable to the terrorists is genocide of Jews.
Forcibly relocate the millions of Arab squatters to.....Yemen. And Micronesia.
There’s your peace plan.
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Yemen is already Muzzified, but... CRIPES! What do you guys have against Micronesia and Antarctica?? Look what the Muzzies did to Indonesia!
You got to love the symbolism of settling them on Bikini Atoll.
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Put them all on Bikini Atoll then authorize one more round of atmospheric nuclear testing.
But...that would just contaminate the world with Muzzie fallout...
I try to be an optimist. A couple years ago ISIS was on the rise. They have been crushed. Hamas and Hezbullah can also be crushed or marginalized greatly by, as you imply, a change in policy in Iran.
But, in order for it to work pretty much the whole world has to rally behind it. That is why I said a plan has to be sold. It has to convince the vast majority of people and governments that it is sensible and fair and addresses the main issues. It means the weasels in the EU have to give up their fantasies and adherence to Oslo. Basically, the USA and Israel has to do the negotiating for the Palestinians because waiting for them is just nonsensical. Too many internal conflicts of interests, too many opinions, and too many armed groups. Imagine if the Democrats and Republicans each had their own armed forces. Its craziness. People don’t realize that the Palestinians are essentially in various internal conflicts, Mexican stand-offs, greenmail arrangements etc - they just see the PLO vs Hamas. It is hard for people in western societies to understand how clannish cultures operate. But it could in a way be compared to the USA in the colonial era. The various colonies operated independently and through cooperation - it took something major to unite them all to agree to a grand political bargain that became the USA. The same thing has to happen here.
If there were such an outpour by the world, and the Palestinian man on the street believed that a) they had worldwide support wanting to help them achieve peace and prosperity through finance, trade and diplomacy, b) that the offer on the table gives them peace and a path to make a better life for themselves, and c) that no other options are available to them, then I think they can be brought around to accept a deal. They won’t accept a deal if they think they are being snookered or forced into unfair terms - and an imposed peace is not real peace - but if they saw sincerity and a fair bargain that addressed their internal and external concerns then it will be that much easier for the PA to accept it because they had the support of the people.
Oslo failed. Among many mistakes, letting the PLO come in to run things and giving them 30,000 machine guns without first seeing if they had any capacity and desire to actually run a peaceful political entity was part of the flaw. The cart before the horse. It is absolutely imperative that the Palestinian government be a responsible government willing to enforce the peace and deliver services to the people. No more of this graft and corruption; and no more of that wink, nod, send the rogues to attack whenever they want nonsense. No country in the world would allow armed militias to run amok and attack other countries. That undermines the rule of law and the authority and legitimacy of the government. The PA must not only make peace, but enforce peace.
A few comments. There has been a long-standing but low grade dispute between Egypt and Saudi Arabia over the ownership of a couple of small islands in the Red Sea. Recently, Egypt agreed to give up its claim over these islands in return for a couple billion dollars cash. This tells me that Egypt is starting to re-prioritize its national agenda.
The Sinai is mostly vacant. There are only a couple of small cities, and a handful of towns and villages inhabited by Bedouin clans. Total population of Sinai is 1.4 million, compared to Egypt on whole with a population of nearly 100 million. And 2/3 of this population lives in Western Sinai, closer to Egypt proper. In other words, the land in Eastern Sinai is basically empty desert. The Sinai is a total land area of 23,000 sq miles in size.
Water is a problem for the whole region. Desalination is the answer. I have read that somewhere between 40%-55% of Israel’s national water supply now comes from desalination plants. That means something like 4-5 million people (plus industrial use) live on Desalination technology. They can build desal plants to supply the Sinai and Gaza with fresh water for millions.
Sinai has oil and gas. I doubt Egypt will give up those rights. But, Israel discovered several massive natural gas fields off their coastline. One of them is coming online soon to provide natgas to Europe. They also discovered one off the coast of Gaza, and Israel has already stated that they will support a Palestinian claim on that gas field if/when a Palestinian nation is created. So automatically between water and natgas you have resources for the population, agriculture, and for international commerce.
Just for arguments sake, say you take a slice of about 400 square miles of land in the Sinai, so that it is also adjacent to Gaza. it is a small sliver less than 2% of the total Sinai land area. Of course, Egypt builds its own security walls around this strip of land - and it would still have scores of miles of desert between this land area and Egypt proper that make Egypt defensible from any kind of attack from the east. The Egyptians would have nothing to worry about - indeed they would take a lot of pressure off by allowing Gaza to expand in size 3-fold or 4-fold.
They would not give up this land. They would lease it for 99 years. They would be compensated with cash, and with improved trade and international relations, as well as having stability in the region and I expect a collapse of the Muslim Brotherhood due to it being an obsolete and unnecessary ideology in the face of new economic and political realities. The Palestinian state can build out tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of housing units to accommodate the influx of camp denizens and natural growth, industrial areas, agricultural areas, and tourist/trade areas.
A prosperous Palestinian state would be a net positive for Egypt. It would elevate its own importance in world affairs because it would be that much more vital to that many more people and interests. Trade, tourism, farming and industry in the eastern Sinai would all benefit. I’m sure you know that the Mediterranean as well as the Red Sea coastlines are both absolutely beautiful topography - if they got rid of their hatred of western values and developed it for tourism and investment and trade it would be good for all parties. Millions of tourists would come and spend money in Egypt, Israel and the new Palestinian state. They would all prosper together in this regard.
You are right, the Palestinian government lacks legitimacy. It has to elect new leadership, and respect human rights. Sure some crazies will always hate and want to destroy Israel. But I think the average person is only supporting Hamas because Hamas provides social services and is seen as “doing something” even though you and I know what they are doing is counter-productive. But if other groups were able to provide the services, and if the people thought they had real opportunity and outside support on a massive scale, I think they would choose peace and prosperity and a better life for their kids just like most other people want.
Maybe I am dreaming a bit, I am prone to fits of unrealistic optimism sometimes :-). But I have no idea what Trump’s plan was but whatever the plan is it has to be big, bold, and address these larger concerns.
And Micronesia.
a resounding NO absolutely.
He didn’t wake up - his eyes have been wide open from the get-go...during his campaign, he said he didn’t believe it was possible but he would do what he could because the crux has to come (paraphrasing)...looks like the crux is coming....
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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Another failure from Kushner.
Looks like we’re getting more criminals on the street, an expensive childcare entitlement for the rich, investigations into at least Ivanka’s illegal use of private email for government business, and by far the worst of all, the still challenging and opportunity-lost legacy of bringing in hordes of GOPe stooge, who kept out actual MAGA candidates, to staff their admin from the start.
Agreed.
You beat me to it!
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