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To: sukhoi-30mki

If it’s a lopsided battle and your side has complete control of the air, an air-conditioned tank might not be so bad.

If it’s a closely-matched battle and your side does not have undisputed air superiority, that tank, any tank, is a coffin. We and our adversaries have many effective ways to kill tanks and/or their crews. True, tanks are getting better protection from RPGs and so forth, but no close-in defense is going to stop DU or tungsten 20 mm rounds from shredding tanks and their tracks. AFAIK no short range defense has even been tried against top-attack seeker weapons such as Javelin or Maverick.

I think we need to let the Abrams be our last manned battle tank, and from now on concentrate on getting equivalent or better capability and firepower from swarms of remote-controlled smaller tanks with minimal armor for protection from small arms.

Swarm technology is rapidly advancing. Soon if not now you will able to remotely direct one lead tank platform in a battle and have a swarm of identical tanks follow your lead while using semi-autonomy to navigate terrain and gain advantageous angles on the objective. If your tank gets disabled you will instantly switch and make another one into the lead tank. The enemy will attack individual tanks but they will have to kill virtually all of them to defeat the swarm.


9 posted on 06/17/2018 1:22:10 AM PDT by JustaTech (A mind is a terrible thing)
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To: JustaTech

Will swarm technology dominate in the air and on the sea?


11 posted on 06/17/2018 1:38:41 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (President Trump divides Americans . . . from anti-Americans.)
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To: JustaTech

Indeed, swarms with a human “leader” and semi-autonomous functionality seem to be the way to go. The reason for having a human at least near them, and for having semi-autonomy, is of course jamming (something our adversaries are getting very good at). You can’t just have it so that if a drone (whether aerial or ground based) loses its signal it’s taken out of the battlefield. Having a human nearby means that it can close ranks until signal gain is sufficient to restore communications. Having semi-autonomy means that if its signal is lost, it can attempt to continue its last assigned mission on its own to the best of its ability (e.g. including recognition, classification, and neutralization of targets discovered after communication was lost), up until communications are reestablished. If jamming can’t stop a mission from being completed, its utility is greatly reduced.


16 posted on 06/17/2018 1:49:01 AM PDT by OldGuard1
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To: JustaTech
Few problems with your post.

AMAP ADS is reportedly *specifically* capable against many top attack munitions like Javelin. Arena and Trophy can kill Maverick at many attack angles and reportedly so can Afghanit. They may also be able to take down Javelin depending on how far away the Javelin was launched (see below pictures.)

FYI, this is Javelin's top down attack profile - Maverick's is similar. It's not actually fully perpendicular 'top down.'

For reference, here's Javelin's direct attack profile.

Our current Abrams is air conditioned as well - not because of crew comfort but for NBC reasons and to cool the huge array of computers and electronics in it.

Additionally, there are versions of Arena and other APS that *can* knock down 20mm cannon fire. Yes, even tungsten AP rounds.

18 posted on 06/17/2018 2:15:08 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: JustaTech
Additionally, here's some intel as to what the Arena KAZT version as fitted to the T-80 could do back in *1990* - provided courtesy of the US Marine Corps. Specifically, Marine Corps Warfighting Publication 3-15.5 – MAGTF Antiarmor Operations. Again, dated 1990.

Keep in mind that this is what the Corps *knew* the Arena KAZT could do *thirty years ago*. Arena's been heavily upgraded and enhanced since then. The latest version and the successor system Afghanit eliminate the 20 degree "blind spot" behind the tank, have a IIRC higher vertical angle interception capability, and depending on the projectile and track commander's preferences it can process the threat, slew the track's gun onto the launcher and cue up the launcher for the gunner all by itself. They also have a redundant radar array with transceivers all around the turret and hull so there's no one single point of failure to be shot at from outside the tank. Ivan did learn from the BMP-1 debacle.

The Chechens found out that later versions of Arena were only able to be defeated by either getting the tank into such tight quarters that the radar systems were useless or by saturation attacks. At least six missiles or projectiles had to be launched to expect a single hit and often six wasn't enough. These were peer-level missiles fired by Chechen veterans of the Russian military, so it's not like some podunk Middle Eastern troops and ancient gear were attacking and failing either. Reports from Ukraine are similar. Arena is demonstrably capable of intercepting front-line Russian top-down attack munitions (which are usually guided mortar and artillery shells, believe it or not, which means it's a harder target for an APS to shoot down due to the heavier casings) or front-line Russian direct attack missiles. Like the ones shredding Leopards in Syria.

22 posted on 06/17/2018 2:32:10 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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