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To: DoodleDawg

>>Every problem that we endure now with a powerful centralized government was spawned by Lincoln.

>Not to mention the snow in Georgia, South Carolina, and the freezing in Florida. I’m sure Lincoln is somehow responsible for that, too.

You’re an idiot. The US went from being a Union of Sovereign States to being an Empire of States subject to the federal government due to Lincoln. More than a few Northern States were upset about it, but the Feds had a huge army so no one could oppose them. We effectively changed the form of government and then retroactively passed constitutional amendments to make it legal.

It’s not surprising from a historical perspective. Historically Unions have a very short lifespan before a dominate member takes full control of the Union or the Union transforms into an empire. We’re seeing a similar process take place in Europe with Germany calling the shots for the other members. Once Germany has an EU army they’ll start using it to punish EU members who don’t want to obey.


278 posted on 01/08/2018 5:47:22 AM PST by JohnyBoy (The GOP Senate is intentionally trying to lose the majority.)
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To: JohnyBoy
The US went from being a Union of Sovereign States to being an Empire of States subject to the federal government due to Lincoln.

We changed from a confederation of sovereign states with the passage of the US Constitution. That predates Lincoln by about 70 years.

You’re an idiot.

Speak for yourself.

280 posted on 01/08/2018 6:32:20 AM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: JohnyBoy
Excellent commentary. Exactly right so far as I can see. This state of affairs was actually predicted in Anti-Federalist Number 29.

A standing army in the hands of a government placed so independent of the people, may be made a fatal instrument to overturn the public liberties; it may be employed to enforce the collection of the most oppressive taxes; and to carry into execution the most arbitrary measures. An ambitious man who may have the army at his devotion, may step up into the throne, and seize upon absolute power.

And:

The militia of Pennsylvania may be marched to New England or Virginia to quell an insurrection occasioned by the most galling oppression, and aided by the standing army, they will no doubt be successful in subduing their liberty and independency. But in so doing, although the magnanimity of their minds will be extinguished, yet the meaner passions of resentment and revenge will be increased, and these in turn will be the ready and obedient instruments of despotism to enslave the others; and that with an irritated vengeance. Thus may the militia be made the instruments of crushing the last efforts of expiring liberty, of riveting the chains of despotism on their fellow-citizens, and on one another. This power can be exercised not only without violating the Constitution, but in strict conformity with it;

318 posted on 01/08/2018 1:18:00 PM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: JohnyBoy; DoodleDawg; Bull Snipe; DiogenesLamp; rockrr
JohnnyBoy: "The US went from being a Union of Sovereign States to being an Empire of States subject to the federal government due to Lincoln."

So, who was it that first proclaimed "our Empire"?
Well, that would be George Washington:

  1. "Posterity will talk of Washington as the Founder of a Great Empire, when my name shall be lost in the vortex of revolution." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

  2. "The foundation of our Empire was not laid in the gloomy age of Ignorance and Superstition, but at an Epoch when the rights of mankind were better understood and more clearly defined, than at any former period." GW 1783

  3. "...express your utmost horror & detestation of the man who wishes, under any specious pretences, to overturn the liberties of our country, & who wickedly attempts to open the flood gates of civil discord, & deluge our rising empire in blood." GW 1786

  4. "[T]he foundation of a great Empire is laid, and I please myself with a persuasion, that Providence will not leave its work imperfect." GW circa 1789

Of course, Washington did not found an "empire", but a constitutionally limited federal republic, the same republic passed down to Abraham Lincoln and which Lincoln passed on to his successors.
But the word "empire" was not disparaging in Washington's time, and he had no problem applying it to the United States.

418 posted on 01/10/2018 4:18:12 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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