Cruz pulls support from Moore: Allegations merit ‘criminal prosecution’ if true

The Hill ^ | November 13, 2017 | ELLIOT SMILOWITZ

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"to be reduced to ad hominem attacks reviling another FReeper as stupid and childish because that person is underwhelmed by your say-so and credulous obeisance."

Wow, ad hominem attacks, really? Look at all of the things that I have been called on this thread and you want to accuse me of ad hominem attacks? Please!!!

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"I am merely questioning the timing of this."

It's what made me suspicious at first. But all of the reporting and the fifth accuser's press conference has swayed my opinion that he is indeed guilty. I'm actually mad at people like Mo Brooks and Luther Strange for not doing a little oppo research to find this info out during the primary. Sounds like it was an open secret and not hard to find...

[MayflowerMadam]

I guess Cruz has never heard that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. He has “history”.

[entropy12]

This is not Roy Moore’s first foray for an elected official. Explain why the 5 were silent for 40 years, but now emerge suddenly 30 days before the election.

And furthermore, where is the evidence? DNA? Photo’s? Letters? Where is the evidence Moore attempted forcible sex unlike Bill Clinton? Trying to begin a mere friendly relationship with any person, of any age, is not criminal AFAIK.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"This is not Roy Moore’s first foray for an elected official. Explain why the 5 were silent for 40 years, but now emerge suddenly 30 days before the election."

As I said previously, I was also suspicious of the timing at first. However, it's not unusual for real victims to come forward many years later. The actor that first accused Kevin Spacey waited for 30 + years. I'm going to call it the Harvey Weinstein effect. I think his situation has empowered many women (and some men) across this country who for many years have stayed silent thinking that no one would listen or believe them. Now they think they will be believed.

"And furthermore, where is the evidence? DNA? Photo’s? Letters? Where is the evidence Moore attempted forcible sex unlike Bill Clinton?"

The same thing could be said of Juanita Broderick and Dolly Kyle Browning. They have no evidence other than their story. They have photos of them together with Bill Clinton, but that proves nothing in of itself other than they had contact with him. The yearbook signing proves that Roy Moore at least knew her. Yes, many of these cases are he said, she said. The belief lies in the story, the credibility of the accuser and the credibility of the alleged offender. Taken all together, I do believe Beverly Young Nelson's account. Nothing has come out to say she has something against Roy Moore, or that she is some Democratic operative et al...

[entropy12]

You are comparing apples and oranges. There is vast ocean’s difference between exposing your penis like Clinton did to Paula Jones, or sexual assault on Juanita Broderick and Roy Moore writing a flattering comment in a high school year book to a teenager. Dating a teenager by an adult is not a crime, unless sex is involved. I have not seen any credible stories of Moore involved in a sexual relationship with a teenager.

[Lakeshark]

So why did they all suddenly do this now?

I'm sorry, there is zero evidence for their story, and plenty of reasons for so many to make this stuff up.

Do you not remember the same thing that happened to Trump? All those women who came out of the woodwork saying he did something to them? They eventually slunk away, just like these ones will. Why now after 40 years? After all the stuff he's done, why now? It takes someone very gullible to believe this isn't a major setup by the Washington Post and the leftists.

It's such a transparent hit job, from all the same people. You seem vaguely incurious about that, and oddly interested in believing people that have little character or interest in the truth.

[Squantos]

These “ladies” waited till Moore was a sure to win and made allegations ? Polidiots already in office are trying to defund and destroy someone who hasn’t even been charged , prosecuted and found guilty . Pretty much collusion isn’t it ?? If indeed he’s found guilty later with his “day in court” then fine. Can’t a member of congress be impeached then. This is IMO all about the elite polidiots telling the voters who they can and can’t elect....... dangerous precedent.

My opinion as thus far the electoral branch is the rotten to the core..

[DesScorp]

Cruz cucks again. Gutless.

[gleeaikin]

Now that two public places, one a Mall are saying that the Judge was banned from those places because he was taking too much interest in teenage girls, it seems more credible. In addition, the woman in the 5th interview describes in great and tearful detail how hard she struggled before he finally let her go. He then told her not to tell anyone because she would not have been believed. Forty years ago I am sure that was the case.

I had a law student in college and a few years later a lawyer try to rape me. I fought very hard an eventually they gave up. This was around 1960. I was about 20 and 26 at those times. Lawyers know how far they can push it before it actually becomes chargeable rape. It is pretty far and a girl/woman has to be very determined and strong to fight back. The law student was pressing my neck and I almost passed out but he always stopped just before I became unconscious. With the lawyer I had crawled under a bed and he was pulling on my legs while I kicked and kicked.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

I am so sorry to hear what happened to you. I can only imagine how you must feel seeing the comments on this post. I’m getting ripped right now for saying I believe this latest woman to come forward (Beverly Young Nelson). I was very suspicious of the timing (after the primaries) yet I just don’t see how any fair minded person can see her press conference and conclude she is lying and this is a political witch hunt. The sad thing is that the vast majority of the people on this website would readily believe all of it if Roy Moore had a ‘D’ after it.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Lakeshark,

As I’ve stated many times, I was suspicious at first because it all came out after the primaries. However, the mounting evidence against him has convinced me he is a sexual predator.

I’m gullible? Vaguely incurious? Please see gleeaikin’s post 310, perhaps you would like to call her gullible as well.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"You are comparing apples and oranges. There is vast ocean’s difference between exposing your penis like Clinton did to Paula Jones, or sexual assault on Juanita Broderick and Roy Moore writing a flattering comment in a high school year book to a teenager. "

How do we know that Clinton exposed himself to Paula Jones and how do we know that he sexually assaulted Juanita Broddrick? There were no witnesses, to either of these actual events? It was their word, it was a he said/she said. We weighed the evidence from the story and the credibility of the accusers vs. the denial and the credibility of the accused and came to a conclusion. For Bill Clinton it was easy for all of us on this site to believe that he did these things to Paula Jones and Juanita Broddrick. Let's also keep in mind that Broddrick did not step forward for about 15 - 16 years later as well.

That's exactly what I'm doing here. Beverly Young Nelson is accusing Roy Moore of far more than signing her yearbook. She's accusing him in great detail of attempted rape. The yearbook was shown to prove that she had some contact with him in the past. By bringing that up like you did, you are being disingenuous. You either believe what she said or you don't, period. I'll flip it around on you, why do you believe Juanita Broddrick and not Beverly Young Nelson? What is the evidence that convinced you one was lying and the other is not?

[entropy12]

Very elementary, Dr Watson!

Bill Clinton settled with Paula Jones with a substantial amount of dollars. And he was impeached. And he was dis-Barred. And he was sued in US court of law and was found to be lying about sex with a young intern, because his DNA was present on Monica’s blue dress.

None of above applies to Roy Moore. You may find equivalency between Bill Clinton and Roy Moore. I don’t.

[Lakeshark]

I'll take your thoughts as well intended, and an attempt to be even handed.

There were a few here that believed the women who came forward against Trump (more than have come forward in his case) after the Billy Bush tape. Does anyone still believe them?

Insofar as Juanita Broaddrick, she told her best friend immediately what happened. Her swollen lip was verified by others at the time.

As to Clinton and Paula Jones, other than the rumors she could identify something about his penis, we don't know, except that she told others immediately what happened. From what I can see, it's also true that Bill genuinely was and is a horn dog who has no self control. It's been his MO since arkansas to the present day, which makes the case against him quite believable.

In this case, no one has come forward in forty years and said he's like this. Forty years. Plus there are huge holes in every one of the allegations, that are forty years old.

Forty years ago, zero evidence other than vague tie ins.

Now, I'm sorry for any woman such as gleeaiken who has been assaulted, but none of this passes the smell test. These women have had forty years to stand up to a very politically involved man who was a lightning rod in Alabama for most of that time.

And they pick now to all suddenly come forward. At the very same time. How convenient.

Just as coincidental as the women who said Trump groped them. With the same lawyer.

I'm sorry, this has all the makings of a political hit. An ugly one. One that will be repeated forever against conservative politicians only. It's right out of the Alinsky playbook, and has all the right trappings.

[Lakeshark]

I meant to mention one more thing.

In Clinton's case, and others like Weiner, they continued with their predations.

There is no such evidence, not a smidge that Moore is a predator, only mysterious first time allegations from forty years ago.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"None of above applies to Roy Moore. You may find equivalency between Bill Clinton and Roy Moore. I don’t."

What about Bill Clinton and Juanita Broddrick? I notice you sidestepped that one. He's denied to this day....

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"There is no such evidence, not a smidge that Moore is a predator, only mysterious first time allegations from forty years ago."

Actually there are multiple accounts from people that live there that he's a well known horndog. He was banned from the local mall because he was going after teenagers, the mall security were on the watch for him, his co-worker DA has publicly stated it was well known he liked them young and would cruise malls, etc... For the past 32 years (I believe) he's been married. Hopefully that settled him down. That would put his marriage in 1985 and perhaps that put an end to his wandering ways.

[Theodore R.]

Maybe a primary opponent will step forward against Cruz; otherwise it’s he and Beto to pick from. Who knows, maybe George P. will throw his sombrero into the race.

[Theodore R.]

The Baptist Cruz also exempted himself from paying tithes because he said he had other commitments.