'Somebody Help Me!' Nurse Arrested After Refusing to Draw Blood

Time Magazine ^ | 9/1/2018 | AP

[varyouga]

(SALT LAKE CITY) — A Utah police officer's body camera video shows a hospital nurse being handcuffed after refusing to draw blood on an unconscious patient.

The video taken at University Hospital in Salt Lake City shows nurse Alex Wubbels calmly explaining to Salt Lake detective Jeff Payne that she couldn't draw blood on a patient who had been injured in a car accident. She told the officer a patient was required to give consent for a blood sample or be under arrest. Otherwise, she said police needed a warrant.

The dispute ended with Payne telling the nurse she was under arrest and physically moving her out of the hospital while she screamed.

The Salt Lake Tribune reports Wubbels was not charged. Police have started an internal investigation, but Payne remains on duty.

[ifinnegan]

“Police officer should have remained while the patient was treated and asked for a warrant with probable cause.”

I don’t disagree.

“They can’t force you to give your blood when your conscious why would they be able to obtain such evidence when your unconscious?”

The article indicated the nurse claimed not to be able to even draw blood without the person’s consent.

[redcatcherb412]

Will be an interesting one ...

You have the cop on the phone with his supervisors demanding the draw and tellin cop to arrest the nurse if she won’t comply

and

The Nurse on the phone with her managers telling her she cannot draw the blood

[Repeal The 17th]

“... why were they going after the victim ...”
-
The police department was looking for anything that could mitigate their potential liability for the crash.

[Jim Noble]

Can we buy options on the lawsuit?

[ifinnegan]

“There is a huge difference between drawing blood for medical purposes and drawing blood for legal, evidentiary purposes.”

From the article: “She told the officer a patient was required to give consent for a blood sample...”

So the article is Not saying what you said above and I reacted to the article.

Is what the article attributed to the nurse wrong?

[blueplum]

1. you and nobody else can force a nurse to order someone to violate Federal HIPA law, thereby subjecting herself to lawsuits and revocation of her license.
2. Phlebotomists draw blood; not floor nurses, and they do not report to floor nurses.
3. A hospital can draw blood for diagnostic tests pertinent to saving the life of the patient but the results of those tests are protected under HIPA - Federal Law.
4. Blood cannot be drawn for a third party without a warrant because the third party ISNT the patient - and HIPA also applies.
5. The nurse was the messenger - the nurse was representing the position of the hospital. Go arrest the administrator, don't take a nurse off the floor of a critical care ward when she has 12-15 patients relying on her.
6. An arrest, unless expunged, will destroy the ability of a nurse to renew her credentials.
7. The results of any blood draws are permanent records. They can be accessed by law enforcement, with a warrant, at any time after the draw date. Timing is irrelevant if it comes to using the records in a criminal proceeding. The detective should know this. His actions were psychotic.

You owe nurses everywhere an apology, sir.

[conservative98]

[Ozark Tom]

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/14-1468.html

[varyouga]

” I simply say now that our Founding Fathers wanted a small government because they held the view that man’s nature was to oppress his fellow man. As the Good Book says, The heart is more deceitful than all else.”

Amen. NO entitity should have such power over citizens.

“You described one such abuse.”

I don’t consider abuse by multiple individuals at same time to be “one”. If all 5 accept it, that obviously shows the problem reaches much further than “one bad apple”.

Just like all the other cops in this video accepted this nurse being arrested completely illegally without cause. If I saw someone I work with abusing someone, I would STEP UP. Yet this rarely seems to happen with cops.

[conservative98]

“This is something that you guys agreed to with this hospital,” Wubbels says while showing Payne the policy in writing. “The three things that allow us to do that are if you have electronic warrant, patient consent or patient under arrest … and neither of those things … the patient can’t consent, he told me repeatedly that he doesn’t have a warrant and the patient is not under arrest. So, I’m just trying to do what I’m supposed to do, that’s all.”

A 2-minute video of the interaction then cuts to Wubbels holding a phone, as a man’s voice warns that a “huge mistake” is being made by threatening a nurse. That sets off Payne, who then places Wubbels in handcuffs and leads her out of the hospital as the woman shrieks in agony.

“OK, no, we’re done, we’re done — you’re under arrest,” Payne says. “We’re going, we’re done, we’re done, I said we’re done!”

“You can’t put me under arrest, this is not OK,” Wubbels says while backpedaling before being led out of the hospital. “Somebody help me. Stop! You’re assaulting me, stop! Stop — I’ve done nothing wrong!”

Nurse dragged out of hospital, arrested for doing her job
http://nypost.com/2017/09/01/nurse-arrested-after-refusing-blood-test-on-unconscious-patient/

[af_vet_rr]

I don’t know understand why so many ppl on this forum love cops.


It is odd that you see this on FR though, because many of us are alarmed by the constant militarization of the police by city, state, and the federal government (and Trump is not helping matters by opening the flood gates again). We also see how many law enforcement officers are used by their agencies and government as another means of revenue generation, rather than protecting and serving.

However, many people grew up with a very sheltered view of the world, and they want to think of Andy Griffith rather than a roided-out Barney Fife with body armor, his itchy trigger finger and fully-loaded Glock, and a fear of minorities and poor people (no disrespect meant to Don Knotts - he did a great job of portraying a scared cop with an itchy trigger finger ).

[Washi]

Is what the article attributed to the nurse wrong?

No, the article was right and the nurse was right. She was talking about a blood sample to be used for legal/evidentiary purposes.

A blood sample, for those purposes, requires either patient consent, a warrant, or that the patient be under arrest.

A blood sample drawn for purposes of providing emergency medical care to a patient does not have those same requirements.

It's a pretty easy difference to understand.

[af_vet_rr]

Will be an interesting one ...

You have the cop on the phone with his supervisors demanding the draw and tellin cop to arrest the nurse if she won’t comply

and

The Nurse on the phone with her managers telling her she cannot draw the blood


Only one of these people was following the law (and the Constitution). Hint: It wasn't the cop (and his boss), so it should be a no-brainer.

[zeugma]

Police officer should have remained while the patient was treated and asked for a warrant with probable cause. They can’t force you to give your blood when your conscious why would they be able to obtain such evidence when your unconscious?

Probable cause for what?

As outlined in the excellent summary above by af_vet_rr at post 47, I can find no justification for a warrant to be even asked for, let alone granted.

I've read through 2 posts on this subject. Those supporting the unhinged officer were no surprise at all. This particular incident is so clear, that it is an excellent vehicle to identify those who will reflexively support police regardless of the actual circumstances.

[Army Air Corps]

...rather than a roided-out Barney Fife with body armor, his itchy trigger finger and fully-loaded Glock, and a fear of minorities and poor people...

Include a general contempt for the citizenry, and I think you have it nailed.

[af_vet_rr]

The police department was looking for anything that could mitigate their potential liability for the crash.


That's what makes this really interesting - the cop acknowledged very clearly that he did not have the warrant and authority to take the blood, yet was still very aggressive about getting that blood sample right then and there.

This isn't some ignorant rookie cop - this was a seasoned detective who knew and stated he was in the wrong, but was damn sure going to get what he was after.

That really makes me think that he was denied a warrant, or didn't bother trying, because he knew the judge would not give him a warrant for the comatose victim of the crash.

In thinking about it, what maybe more disturbing than the detective not only breaking the law, but abusing his authority and the nurse, is the two LEOs who stood by.

I don't know how Utah handles cops who work for universities, but the other cop was form the Utah Department of Public Safety - he was a state law enforcement officer.

The fact that a member of a Utah state law enforcement agency stood by as another cop was clearly committing one or more criminal acts that violated the US Constitution and Utah state law is extremely worrisome, far more than the nurse being abused.

[GRRRRR]

She had a printout of the hospital policy in her hand and read it to the cop.

She should have sued. Would have won bigly.

[zeugma]

It's a pretty easy difference to understand.

Unless you're purposefully trying not to (understand).

[sarge83]

It would be awful if this goon was in an accident and he wakes up in the ER with this same nurse looking down at him. The other cops who know the law should have intervened and shut this fool down, he and the other cops only hurt themselves when they don’t police stupid in their own ranks.

[sarge83]

Ever heard of calling to get a warrant? If I am not under arrest then what is your basis for demanding a sample of my blood? You have none.