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Head of Navy's 7th Fleet to be relieved of duty after second deadly mishap in Pacific
foxnews.com ^ | 22 August 2017 | None Listed

Posted on 08/22/2017 11:38:08 PM PDT by drop 50 and fire for effect

he U.S. Navy will relieve the commander of its 7th Fleet from duty after the fleet suffered its second deadly mishap in less than three months, a U.S. defense official confirmed to Fox News.

An official statement from the Navy regarding the relief of Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin was expected late Tuesday night. The decision was first reported by the Wall Street Journal.

The 7th Fleet has been involved in three collisions since January, the last two of which have resulted in the deaths of 17 sailors.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 7thfleet; accident; command; navy; usnavy
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To: Robe

Even with foggy nights I would hope they have thermal vision to assist visual lookouts.

[Is ‘lookout’ the correct term BTW?]


161 posted on 08/24/2017 6:40:35 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Ever since Civil War, DNC = terrorists: KKK, black panthers; muslim refugees, BLM ...)
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

I think more need to go, CNO needs gone


162 posted on 08/24/2017 6:43:25 AM PDT by dila813 (Voting for Trump to Punish Trumpets!)
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To: momincombatboots; rodguy911; LucyT

’ ... who is sinking Destroyers? And why is everyone covering it up? ... ‘

I’m willing to consider that.

But we need to consider what evidence there is from the merchant crews’ viewpoint. If a merchant ship collides, either the crew or their loved ones would have something to say about it.

Did you check up on that?


163 posted on 08/24/2017 6:44:30 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Ever since Civil War, DNC = terrorists: KKK, black panthers; muslim refugees, BLM ...)
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To: Az Joe

I believe this is the root cause


164 posted on 08/24/2017 6:44:39 AM PDT by dila813 (Voting for Trump to Punish Trumpets!)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

I personally know a sailors parent from the Fitzgerald.. Two destroyers do not have accidents. Have you checked the mathematical probability?
I did read several articles queztioning the track of the merchant ship.. hard to tell what is fake news and conspiracy. Howe er strictly speaking.. I have a,mathematical doubt.


165 posted on 08/24/2017 7:38:50 AM PDT by momincombatboots (White Stetsons up.. let's save our country!)
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To: dila813
I think more need to go, CNO needs gone

There are a lot of unknowns right now and they are things non Navy experienced don't realize. Our military is undermanned and over extended. Was the ship fully manned as it was designed to be? Operating under a manpower shortage can wear a crew down even in port. Been there done that in 1980 in overhaul. A carrier in homeport the usual duty section was six sections we had three.

Our military has been on a deliberate decline going back to the GHWB administration under SECDEF Cheney. During that he had made closure and decommission recommendations to congress we actually under that timeframe lost more ships and crew than six years of Clinton where the next chunk with the help of a GOP two house majority decreased our military readiness even more.We lost an aircraft carrier thanks to policies in the GHW Bush term. By the time it was over the ship was unfit for sea duty. It was only at it's halfway point in it's designed service life.

Then later came the Smirking Chimp who said lets bring Daddy's friends back in. No help ever came Nadda none Zilch!!! Not even after the 9/11 attacks did he go to congress and say increase End Troop Strengths which is who sets how many active and reservists there are in the military. All of this while since 1990 our nation has basically been fighting one and two venue combat operations on a peacetime stand down manpower level. A 20 year Lifer today never knew the Reagan military. A 30 year time in service served a year under it.

Manpower cuts, maintenance and upgrades underfunded, and yes social engineering, have all contributed. We didn't get into this mess solely under Obama even though he was the main one who ordered the final stab in the back with transgender troops.

I served 76-80. People died on my ship. Several pilots died due to crashes, an aircraft re-spot had a man ran over by a F-14, two suicides, many more injured and permanently disabled.

It is going to take time to get things turned around and it's likely going to take asking some retired but still physically able senior NCO and Officers to volunteer to come back in active and restore morale and discipline. Discipline isn't just in a punishment rather in a this is how it is done and tell them why making that procedure the rule not to be short cutted.

Some of us had been for years {back since Poppy Bush} been bookmarking readiness threads that went down the worm hole. There has been almost three decades of warnings no one has acted on.

When I enlisted Admiral Holloway was SECNAV. Morale was the pits as was discipline. In the middle of my enlistment ADM Thomas B. Hayward took over and things changed rather fast. Traditions were restored in a matter of months. One last point. I know FR had a lot of posters who thought Rumsfeld was great. No Rumsfeld helpede to create the Hollow Carter Military and tried to implement some of the same policies again under GW Bush. Rummy was SEC of Defense when I enlisted in 1976.

166 posted on 08/24/2017 7:52:46 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe

All that sounds good and may be true but...... there is no excuse for not manning the bridge with adequate personnel. Other posts could be shorted but not command and control of the vessel in the most crowded water way.

Command error if there were not adequate capable persons on the bridge


167 posted on 08/24/2017 7:59:44 AM PDT by bert (K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;WASP .... The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column)
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

What if no one hacked anything? What if they didn’t have to because the obama regime made it so easy to get what they needed hacking was not necessary?Just wondering,if they can give a pallot of gold, silver and cash to the Iranians plus a 150 billion dollar terrorist fund what else did they give them?


168 posted on 08/24/2017 8:40:49 AM PDT by rodguy911 (Home of the free because of the brave!MAGA!)
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To: bert
All that sounds good and may be true but...... there is no excuse for not manning the bridge with adequate personnel. Other posts could be shorted but not command and control of the vessel in the most crowded water way. Command error if there were not adequate capable persons on the bridge

That would go back to what I said. How manned is the ship? They don't just have to be there but PQS qualified to stand watch. You can't just grab the Cook and say here stand watch on the Bridge. He'd be useless. Obtaining full PQS for watch takes time to do it right and should be done before allowing the person to stand a critical watch without a trainer present. Navigation including Helmsman doing actual navigation duties on the Bridge fall under Quartermaster {navigation and charting} and Bosun mates which are your Helmsman and watches. Then there is the OOD who discerns their input.

If steering is lost the Bridge over sound powered phones can tell the Machinist Mate on watch in the steering gear room the rudder position and he can manually steer the ship. Also nighttime ops underway are a lot different as you have no real sense of distances and have to count more on radar. Do you see a tanker 1000 yrds out or a small craft 500 Yards out? If both ships are in a turn it compounds more the ability to get an accurate sense of their headings.

Night time ops in a crowded sea lane where even though you may see miles of sea to your port and starboard only a quarter mile wide of it in certain places may be navigable meaning deep enough for transit and charted as being such. For example in the Med Sea the Straits of Gibraltar and Straits of Messina look real wide. The actual useable portion can be far less. If you really want to see a pucker factor go through the Straits of Tiran which was Moses likely actual crossing place in the Red Sea.

169 posted on 08/24/2017 8:47:39 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: drop 50 and fire for effect

From day one of officer school: “The Commander is responsible for all his unit does, or fails to do...” Maybe someone will take this sacking as a wake-up call.


170 posted on 08/24/2017 8:48:55 AM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Thunder 6
Maybe the mfwic was gettin' some and couldn't be bothered by the alarm sounding off.

The redundancy built in with the latest electronic gadgets makes this type of accident, twice, unimaginable.

Unless the same gadgets are authorized and able to take aversive action, the decision to do so and carry out the task falls on human hands.

That is the weakest link, in these two cases, and likely for most sea collisions involving super duper USN ships bouncing off Shiite.

The mfwic as otherwise occupied.

171 posted on 08/24/2017 9:03:54 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a Momma Deuce)
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To: BroJoeK

Thanks fr your post.. I understand, other prob not so much...
Popeye...

(Thinking of changing my screen name..LOL)


172 posted on 08/24/2017 10:33:00 AM PDT by Robe (A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: BroJoeK; Robe
You two have at it, I enjoy your posts,

Yeah I am having a blast.

It is not everyday you can have this much fun with a taxi driver

173 posted on 08/24/2017 11:02:39 AM PDT by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it, but ready to go again)
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To: yldstrk

Mistakes were made. It certainly wasn’t due to any emp attack.


174 posted on 08/24/2017 11:17:34 AM PDT by brooklin
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To: NECAWA

Navy spokesman was saying that the McCain suffered a steering casualty.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/uss-mccain-suffered-steering-malfunction-report-article-1.3431483


175 posted on 08/24/2017 12:09:07 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: cva66snipe
It is going to take time to get things turned around and it's likely going to take asking some retired but still physically able senior NCO and Officers to volunteer to come back in active and restore morale and discipline

I was in 78 - 84. A 20% pay-raise turns around morale fairly quick unless you are in a toxic work environment. People in technical billets have the smarts to go doing something else when their obligations to serve are up. There was a purge of military officers during the Obama years. Some of it was for conduct unbecoming, but I suspect much of it was to purge officers who were resistant to wide scale social changes being implemented. Having served in the military, I know there is a trickle down effect. It probably isn't much different than working for a corporation that hires a new CEO and brings in a bunch of new yes people.

176 posted on 08/24/2017 12:23:26 PM PDT by EVO X
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To: JoSixChip
Someone was not doing their job.

Not true. MANY people wore not doing their job.

177 posted on 08/24/2017 4:26:42 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: momincombatboots

‘I did read several articles queztioning the track of the merchant ship.. hard to tell what is fake news and conspiracy.’

I imagine people aboard the merchant vessels would put something out there. If not, that’s suspicious.


178 posted on 08/28/2017 9:03:07 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (Ever since Civil War, DNC = terrorists: KKK, black panthers; muslim refugees, BLM ...)
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