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Top US Surveillance Lawyer Argues That New Technology Makes The 4th Amendment Outdated
Tech Dirt ^ | 22 December 2016 | Mike Masnik

Posted on 12/26/2016 11:55:47 AM PST by Lorianne

Reuters has an interesting piece looking at how many experts are concerned that mass surveillance efforts by the federal government are making a mockery of the 4th Amendment. The focus of the article is on the scan of all Yahoo email that was revealed back in October, but it certainly touches on other programs as well. The concern is easily summarized by Orin Kerr: "A lot of it is unrecognizable from a Fourth Amendment perspective," said Orin Kerr, a former federal prosecutor and Georgetown University Law School expert on surveillance. "It's not where the traditional Fourth Amendment law is." But, have no fear, the General Counsel of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, Robert Litt, says there's a reason for that, and it's all technology's fault. We've covered Litt and his somewhat nutty views on the 4th Amendment and surveillance in the past, so the following isn't new. But Litt's main defense of basically all of the NSA's various abuses and mocking of the 4th Amendment is "it's technology's fault." He's quoted twice in the article, and both times, it's all about the tech. First up, an argument that the traditional 4th Amendment doesn't apply, because technology:

(Excerpt) Read more at techdirt.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: 4thamendment; districtofcolumbia; edward; edwardsnowden; fourthamendment; georgetownu; mikemasnik; orinkerr; reuters; robertlitt; snowden; yahoo
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1 posted on 12/26/2016 11:55:47 AM PST by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne

The state always over reaches in its efforts to tyrannize its citizens.

Ben Franklin’s wise words still apply


2 posted on 12/26/2016 12:00:01 PM PST by vooch
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To: Lorianne

Technology really puts a strain on privacy. It is a subject worth working through. Not so sure I want the courts or the legislature involved.


3 posted on 12/26/2016 12:03:28 PM PST by cornfedcowboy
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To: Lorianne

what we need is much stronger, stricter protection for our rights.....1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, amendments and the rest of our rights too

a whole lot of Americans lost their lives making our Bill of Rights possible

and all its taken is an illegal alien president writing a bunch of Executive Orders and appointing socialist/statist/nazi-type/tyranny-enabling judges...... to undermine so much of our liberty


4 posted on 12/26/2016 12:08:31 PM PST by faithhopecharity ("Politicians are not born. They're excreted." Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: Lorianne

Just because it has become infinitely easier to violate the law does not change the fact that it is a violation of the law.


5 posted on 12/26/2016 12:08:50 PM PST by Delta 21 (Patiently waiting for the jack booted kick at my door.)
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To: Lorianne

A Constitutional Amendment might, conceivably, make the 4th amendment outdated. Otherwise ... no.


6 posted on 12/26/2016 12:09:17 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Abortion is what slavery was: immoral but not illegal. Not yet.)
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To: Lorianne

Top US Surveillance Lawyer Argues That New Technology Makes The 4th Amendment Outdated, Ah no it steps on it..


7 posted on 12/26/2016 12:11:39 PM PST by hawg-farmer - FR..October 1998 (------->VMFA 235 '69-'72 KMCAS <------- "Death Angels")
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To: Delta 21

Ding ding ding. Winner!


8 posted on 12/26/2016 12:16:53 PM PST by blackdog
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To: Lorianne
Top US Surveillance Lawyer Argues That New Technology Makes The 4th Amendment Outdated More Important Than Ever

Fixed it.

9 posted on 12/26/2016 12:31:45 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Delta 21

“Just because it has become infinitely easier to violate the law does not change the fact that it is a violation of the law.”

That is right. Nothing has changed about the law except that some people who don’t like the law might need it to be more sharply defined for today’s technology.


10 posted on 12/26/2016 12:33:02 PM PST by mom of young patriots
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To: rockrr

Exactly


11 posted on 12/26/2016 12:35:50 PM PST by Lorianne
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To: Lorianne
"Computerized scanning of communications in the same way that your email service provider scans looking for viruses - that should not be considered a search requiring a warrant for Fourth Amendment purposes," said Litt.

Complete BS from Mr. "it's technology's fault." NO.

It is the fault of the person using the technology.

Scanning email without the permission of the sender or recipient is no different than bugging a phone of intercepting hard-copy mail.

It is absolutely NOT people "willingly sharing information on Facebook."

But considering the little government worm's twisted "logic" in a failed attempt to justify government sticking their nose further into American citizens private lives I am not surprised.

Again...

"Computerized scanning of communications in the same way that your email service provider scans looking for viruses - that should not be considered a search requiring a warrant for Fourth Amendment purposes," said Litt.

Load of crap.

And the gov can "share" that opinion from me all they like.

.

12 posted on 12/26/2016 12:39:37 PM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: Lorianne

Why not just scrap the whole Bill of Rights since it was written by a bunch of racis’ slave owners way back and isn’t relative any longer? Uh, no, that ain’t how it works.


13 posted on 12/26/2016 12:41:39 PM PST by rktman (Enlisted in the Navy in '67 to protect folks rights to strip my rights. WTH?!)
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To: Lorianne

New technology makes the 4th Amendment more important than ever.


14 posted on 12/26/2016 12:57:07 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night...)
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To: Lorianne
IF your e-mail passes, at some point, out of the country, either from sending or receiving, then I've absolutely no problem with the government scanning that message in any form or fashion they want. You are, electronically, importing something, and have zero expectation of privacy in that transaction.

Communications within the United States requires a search warrant to examine.

The above is not negotiable, not waived away by technology or will, and is simply stating our natural rights which we went back and then shackled our government into observing. The 4th is merely an expression of that natural right, not the creation of it.

It would be best if our employees in the government fully understood this most basic concept. Otherwise, I see no other future where natural rights are once again restored.

15 posted on 12/26/2016 12:57:29 PM PST by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: Lorianne
I'm wondering where our representatives are in all this?

Silence is acceptance. It is Congress that should be all over this. Withhold funding or threaten to cut off funding to agencies or tools of the agencies that spy on Americans w/o probable cause warrants. The FISA court should be eliminated. It is as anti-American as the IRS.

16 posted on 12/26/2016 12:58:20 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: hawg-farmer - FR..October 1998
The problem is that there are people who work in law enforcement that believe in pushing the boundaries of the law, rather than getting an appropriate legal basis for new technology.

A perfect example is Stingray, a cell phone spoofing device that has been out for several years. It has a multitude of modes and functions, including pulling position data, reading phones, blocking calls, etc. If somebody dumped one of them on my desk, the first thing I would do is contact my general counsel or the local AUSA and ask for guidance. I have no interest in losing a case and becoming part of any landmark legal decisions.

Instead of making the 4th Amendment obsolete, this tech makes the 4th amendment more important than ever. Starting with the US Attorneys, the government needs to set the tone for the protection of rights.

17 posted on 12/26/2016 1:07:28 PM PST by USNBandit (Sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Lorianne

Learn this then go away!

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


18 posted on 12/26/2016 1:22:41 PM PST by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Lorianne

I think we probably capture all the calls of the British and maybe some other countries and they capture all US calls. Then we exchange the sorted data to get around the prohibitions on spying on US citizens.

Freegards


19 posted on 12/26/2016 1:27:49 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: Lorianne
The Fourth Amendment is not outdated, but it is grossly misinterpreted. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures . . ." clearly protects our email, the modern equivalent of being secure in our papers. The interpretation that scanning our email is okay because it is Yahoo's property or Google's property is a clear violation of the intent of that amendment within the Bill of Rights (privacy - the central tenet of the all-powerful "Penumbra" of the Constitution).

I would like to see President Trump make a stand for civil rights, including privacy. It's not my top priority for him, but it would be the right thing to do.

20 posted on 12/26/2016 1:33:31 PM PST by Pollster1 ("Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed")
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