Gen Michael Flynn on the reforming of Islam

[mikeIII]

You are right - it is a cunning self-sustaining, self-propagating belief system that Muslims are trapped in. Anyone attempting to change it or leave must be killed.

[WENDLE]

The first thing to reform is their face!

[Defiant]

I am very happy to see some decent Muslims try to reform their religion, but I fear it is a hopeless enterprise. The plain meaning of the texts and teachings would still be out there for disaffected losers to cling to, and it would always be a tug of war between the "liberal" wing and the "faithful". The faithful would do desparate things if the liberals controlled a society. Like they do today.

Maybe after 150 years a reform movement could be trusted. It would take a long time to stamp out the stupid.

I think exposing the religion's questionable origins and beliefs is the better way to go. Ridicule it and cause it to die out, not coddle it and hope it decides to suddenly play nice. Treat it like communism during the cold war.

[Pollard]

I don’t think that’s possible considering they bred and acted with no foresight. Too far gone towards the dark side.

[sargon]

Islam cannot be reformed anymore than Christianity can.

Nonsense. This violent, hateful, virulent form of Islam that we're seeing, Wahhabism, was based on the works of a man who didn't live until 600 years after Islam was born, and did not become prevalent until hundreds of years after that.

Christianity has been reformed since its inception (the Protestant Reformation, anyone?) so the notion that neither it or Islam cannot be reformed is simply an excuse for blind bloodthirstiness.

Al Sisi is very much on the right track, unless some here prefer indiscriminate slaughter and likely nuclear holocaust, all in the name of bloodthirsty revenge fantasies.

We'd better all pray to God that Islam does undergo reform, because if it doesn't, it bodes ill for every human being on earth, including billions of non-Muslims.

I understand the absolutist impulse, ladies and gentlemen, but we must understand that we are governed not by what might be considered an ideal solution, but rather a practical solution, and a pogrom against every living Muslim, in addition to being completely impractical, would also carry the unfortunate side effect of turning ourselves into the hateful animals which we so readily decry, not to mention carrying with it the annihilation of any reasonable notion of the teachings of Jesus Christ, who, I might remind us all, is the Son of God and Prince of Peace.

So enough with the self-indulgent, masturbatory revenge fantasies. It is grownups like Al Sisi and his Christian and secular analogs who will ultimately be the agents of resolving the problem of Extremist Islam, which, to reiterate, did not even appear, much less mature, until many hundreds of years after Mohammed lived and died.

So maybe some of the more excitable among us should consider putting down the mindless bloodthirsty crack pipe that the savage Wahhabist animals are passing around...

[M-cubed]

.30-40 Im assuming....

[2ndDivisionVet]

Krag–Jørgensen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag%E2%80%93J%C3%B8rgensen

[Noumenon]

Islam can be reformed. With thermonuclear waepons. A desert called peace.

[Hieronymus]

Right. They waltzed I up Spain an on I to France in 711 by flower power.

[Hieronymus]

Right. They waltzed I up Spain an on I to France in 711 by flower power.

[sargon]

Right. They waltzed I up Spain an on I to France in 711 by flower power.

We're not debating simple warlike tendencies. If you'll check your history books, you'll probably notice that Muslims have no monopoly on wars of conquest.

Plenty of non-Muslim cultures have waged vicious and barbarous warfare, so your deflection is duly noted.

We're talking about an extreme, pathological, murderous intolerance, and that was first written about over half a millenia after the Prophet was dead and buried, and it took another large chunk of a millenia for such insanity to become a formidable force within the religion.

As things stand today, Wahhabism is by no means the only "flavor" of Islam which currently exists in the Islamic world.

One thing which we should openly acknowledge, however, is the financial and infrastructure for which nations like Saudi Arabia are undeniably culpable for.

President-elect Trump, Egypt's Al Sisi, and their ilk now have a golden opportunity to dispense with political correctness, which is costing countless Christian, Muslim, and other lives, and begin dealing with the real necessity that Islam be reformed from within, because if it refuses to do so, then it ultimately will be obliterated by the rest of the world. I just don't think there will be much of a world left after such a war, however, inasmuch as it will inevitably entail a nuclear component, and one which America will never emerge unscathed from.

Hence my preference for the real possibility of reform, as opposed to the alternative of a global thermonuclear war/zombie apocalypse scenario which some seem to naively prefer...

[TexasTransplant]

***”Give them 1 day to reform. The next day, decimate them” ***
Why only 10%?

Rinse and repeat until the source of irritation is eliminated

[frog in a pot]

...you could have Bahaiism; which is basically the peaceful version of Islam. There’s enough similarity to Islam (like belief in Muhammad, and a few other things like using Arabic calligraphy) to sell ex-Mooselimbs on it, but no precedence for jihad, suicide bombing, 9/11-type events, etc.

Thank you for what well may be a solution to a sizable public concern. Not many, myself included, are familiar with Bahaism.

The fact Islam is flushed with those bent on importing a latent threat of violent, deadly force, ought to make it easier for sincere American Muslims to give serious consideration to that form of worshipping Muhammad. It may be possible for the larger body of practitioners to effectively reduce the threat, at least here in our country.

[MacNaughton]

25 ... So maybe some of the more excitable among us should consider putting down the mindless bloodthirsty crack pipe that the savage Wahhabist animals are passing around...

The Muslim population in the United States is growing quickly, and there are no signs of this growth slowing down. So how should Christians respond? With fear? With tolerance? By ignoring Muslims?  Or with boldness, hope, and the Good News of Jesus Christ, clearly the biblical answer. For centuries the church did not go to Muslims with the gospel because Christians thought it was too dangerous or too difficult. Now God is bringing Muslims to America where Christians can lead them to Christ. But when I share this opportunity with churches around the country, I'm asked, “But how? How do I meet Muslims? How can my church make the connections?” This book seeks to answer those questions and more. If you are a Christian, I hope you will open your heart to God’s plan for Muslims in your community.  You can start by reading this book.

[Salvavida]

We see the Reformation as a change in Christianity. Nay. Actually, it was a rediscovery of fundamental doctrine that brought the church back to its roots.

Christianity cannot be changed. Neither can Islam. They can be bastardized, as they have, but fundamental doctrine is pretty straight forward. It isn't the complicated. And Wahhabism or Salafism isn't a virulent strain of Islam. It's actually pretty fundamental.

Love Al-Sisi. But he is a heretic to his religion.

May I suggest Secrets of the Koran by Don Richardson? He only uses Islamic sources, so westernized views of Islam do not enter into the doctrine. I'd also take Dr Bill Whittle's course at the Center for Islamic Studies.

Lastly, if you believe the Bible, you know full well that the issue between the decedents of Jacob and Esau do not get resolved by humanists or any sort. The battle will continue until Christ returns.

Cheers.

[ErikJohnsky]

they’re not popular in Muslim countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%ADs

Hence why this Bahai site, which is a little nice on Islam at parts (http://bahaiteachings.org/jihad-guns-and-bombs-or-an-inner-struggle) ultimate does say:

“According to the Baha’i teachings, religion: “…should unite all hearts and cause wars and disputes to vanish from the face of the earth, give birth to spirituality, and bring life and light to each heart.” – Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 130.

Abdu’l-Baha concludes with this remarkable comment:

If religion becomes a cause of dislike, hatred and division, it were better to be without it, and to withdraw from such a religion would be a truly religious act. For it is clear that the purpose of a remedy is to cure; but if the remedy should only aggravate the complaint it had better be left alone. Any religion which is not a cause of love and unity is no religion. All the holy prophets were as doctors to the soul; they gave prescriptions for the healing of mankind; thus any remedy that causes disease does not come from the great and supreme Physician. – Ibid.”

you can also see that Bahaiism is not into hudud (amptutation punishments) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_laws#Other_prohibitions

and its also telling that its main house of worship is in Israel, scourge of the Ummah.

[sargon]

Love Al-Sisi. But he is a heretic to his religion.

No, he's a heretic to Wahhabist Islam, not Islam in general.

Look, call it what you want, but Al-Sisi is correct: Islam must undergo "reform" or it will be excised from the face of the earth, and before that job is done, I have NO doubt that Islamic countries like, say, Pakistan, will engage in nuclear exchanges with the West.

Islamic extremism is nothing, if not suicidal.

So, personally, I'm hoping for a solution which doesn't guarantee a nuclear World War III, and I sincerely hope that my fellow "moderates" are similarly willing to avoid that scenario, as opposed to precipitating it with hysterical talk of exterminations, because that solution will suck green donkey d--ks for America and everyone else on the planet, IMHO.

Since August 6, 1945, tidy little cut-and-dried solutions, such as mass exterminations of 1 quarter of the world's population (Muslims), have become somewhat naive and problematic. Unless, of course, one likes the notion of nuclear bombs exploding over American population centers.

The infantile wet dream/jingoist "indiscriminately exterminate all Muslims" scenario is sheer madness, and an invitation to nuclear holocaust.

I say we try Al Sisi's (and the United States') "reform Islam" idea first, and reserve the whole "global thermonuclear war/destruction of human civilization" thingie as a last resort, mmmkay?

Cheers.

[TexasTransplant]

I won’t copy and re-post your idiocy, possibly the dumbest string of words ever assembled.
If they ever install a caliphate or if they even get sharia law where you live... they will kill “you” very slowly in front of a crowd of your favorite cheering “reformed” muslims.

Today, at this moment you are useful to them... That evil Snake is just waiting until it is warmed up enough to show you just how stupid you are.
Please read the Koran and the Hadith ... it describes you perfectly in many places, you may at the moment be too dense to realize it... keep trying, it will sink in.

[Defiant]

You could possibly be the stupidest poster ever to post on Free Republic. You lack the ability to comprehend the meaning of what I wrote, and imparted to it the opposite of what I wrote.

[21twelve]

A friend of mine (a Liberal) was saying “Interesting how for years we have been trying to preach Jesus to muslims, but couldn’t get into their countries. And now they are coming here.”

While I think the illegals need to be stopped, and everyone needs to be vetted - it is an opportunity.