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Do Illegal Votes Decide Elections?
The Wall Street Journal ^ | Dec 1, 2016 | Hans von Spakovsky and John Fund

Posted on 12/03/2016 5:52:11 AM PST by KeyLargo

Do Illegal Votes Decide Elections?

There’s no way to know. But the evidence suggests that significant numbers of noncitizens cast ballots.

By Hans von Spakovsky and John Fund

Donald Trump’s claim that illegal voting may have cost him a popular-vote majority has touched off outrage. Widespread voter fraud, the media consensus suggests, isn’t possible. But there is a real chance that significant numbers of noncitizens and others are indeed voting illegally, perhaps enough to make up the margin in some elections.

There’s no way of knowing for sure. The voter-registration process in almost all states runs on the honor system. The Obama administration has done everything it can to keep the status quo in place. The Obama Justice Department has refused to file a single lawsuit to enforce the requirement of the National Voter Registration Act that states maintain the accuracy of their voter-registration lists. This despite a 2012 study from the Pew Center on the States estimating that one out of every eight voter registrations is inaccurate, out-of-date or duplicate. About 2.8 million people are registered in more than one state, according to the study, and 1.8 million registered voters are dead. In most places it’s easy to vote under the names of such people with little risk of detection.

An undercover video released in October by the citizen-journalist group Project Veritas shows a Democratic election commissioner in New York City saying at a party, “I think there is a lot of voter fraud.” A second video shows two Democratic operatives mulling how it would be possible to get away with voter fraud.

The Justice Department has opposed every effort by states—such as Kansas, Arizona, Alabama and Georgia—to verify the citizenship of those registering to vote. This despite evidence that noncitizens are indeed registering and casting ballots.

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; california; clintons; corruption; democrats; fraud; hillary; illegal; immigration; nevada; recount; statesrights; trump; votefraud; voterfraud
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"Fixing this problem is very straightforward. The Trump administration should direct the Department of Homeland Security to cooperate with states that want to verify the citizenship of registered voters. Since this will only flag illegal immigrants who have been detained at some point and legal noncitizens, states should pass laws, similar to the one in Kansas, that require proof of citizenship when registering to vote. The Justice Department, instead of ignoring the issue, should again start prosecuting these cases.

The bottom line is that the honor system doesn’t work. There are people—like those caught voting illegally—who are willing to exploit these weaknesses that damage election integrity."

1 posted on 12/03/2016 5:52:11 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

The ONLY reason for NOT wanting Voters to show ID is to commit VOTE FRAUD!!!!!! And ONLY DEMOCRATS do VOTE FRAUD!!


2 posted on 12/03/2016 5:57:09 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion....... The HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: KeyLargo

The illegals who now live in America and receiving government money and services paid for by working taxpayers have no right to any of these and yet they tried to steal the election by voting for their democrats buddies who did this. It is more than high time to put the illegal aliens and their puppet master politicians both out of America.
America is for Americans and for those who go through legal immigration procedures.


3 posted on 12/03/2016 5:58:49 AM PST by kindred (Jesus is Lord and Saviour. Donald Trump would help make America great again.)
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To: KeyLargo

Ask Nixon.


4 posted on 12/03/2016 6:00:55 AM PST by Paladin2 (No spellcheck. It's too much work to undo the auto wrong word substitution on mobile devices.)
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To: kindred

“In 2013, pollster McLaughlin & Associates conducted an extensive survey of Hispanics on immigration issues. Its voter-profile tabulation shows that 13% of noncitizens said they were registered to vote”


5 posted on 12/03/2016 6:01:26 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Ann Archy

The illegals on welfare will fight Americans patriots who want America to prosper. The current regime are fools and the rino Ryan is part of the problem as they still want illegal immigration to continue.


6 posted on 12/03/2016 6:01:33 AM PST by kindred (Jesus is Lord and Saviour. Donald Trump would help make America great again.)
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To: kindred

I will NEVER understand why ANY Republican even Rino would want ILLEGALS in....they ALL VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS!!


7 posted on 12/03/2016 6:04:58 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion....... The HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: KeyLargo

OBAMA TOLD ILLEGAL TO GO VOTE!

‘Nuff said.


8 posted on 12/03/2016 6:06:51 AM PST by TigerClaws
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To: KeyLargo

I would go a lot farther. People should be required to go IN PERSON to their county elections office to register to vote & present proof of citizenship & residency. That way the Dems can’t harvest votes from vagrants & nursing homes.

People who are interested & want to do their civic duty should have no problem with such a policy.


9 posted on 12/03/2016 6:07:16 AM PST by Twotone (Truth is hate to those who hate truth.)
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To: KeyLargo
13% of noncitizens said they were registered to vote

= 1.33 million for the 11 million supposedly here and

= 3.9 million for the 30 million who are actually here

Assume half voted, and voila: the magic 2 million undocumented votes

10 posted on 12/03/2016 6:07:41 AM PST by Regulator
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To: KeyLargo

Of course the honor system doesn’t work!! Doesn’t even work in grade school!

What the #### can we do in this country without identity cards besides vote?

Board a plane? Buy a drink? A cigarette? Pick up our meds? get a passport? Get a job?

The list is endless.

But deciding the PRESIDENT of the US, no so important.


11 posted on 12/03/2016 6:09:23 AM PST by dp0622 (IThe only thing an upper crust conservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
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To: KeyLargo

One comment on a thread about the Nevada story yesterday involved the idea that in Clark County (Las Vegas) in at least 2008 and 2012, that illegals (or undocumented in PC language) were simply given addresses of foreclosed homes and then permitted to vote.


12 posted on 12/03/2016 6:09:53 AM PST by OttawaFreeper ("If I had to go to war again, I'd bring lacrosse players" Conn Smythe)
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To: KeyLargo

Come on. Illegals by their very act of being here prove that they are not above breaking the law. Why would anyone think that they would not vote?


13 posted on 12/03/2016 6:10:33 AM PST by New Jersey Realist (America is the land of the free BECAUSE of the brave)
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To: TigerClaws

VIDEO:

http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/obama-encourages-illegal-aliens-to-vote/


14 posted on 12/03/2016 6:11:30 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

“The Justice Department has opposed every effort by states—such as Kansas, Arizona, Alabama and Georgia—to verify the citizenship of those registering to vote. This despite evidence that noncitizens are indeed registering and casting ballots.”

This is one of the first things Jeff Sessions should tackle. Start in California.


15 posted on 12/03/2016 6:12:35 AM PST by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: Ann Archy

Geee..........that’s a toughie, isn’t it?

Three million ILLEGALS voting.

One million DEAD FOLKS (at least) voting too.........

AND ALL OF THEM VOTE DEMOCRAT!!

Ya think?


16 posted on 12/03/2016 6:13:38 AM PST by Flintlock (The ballot box STOLEN, our soapbox taken away--the BULLET BOX is left to us.)
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To: Regulator

Instead of Comprehensive Immigration Reform, let’s have Comprehensive Election Reform.

Then, think about immigration.


17 posted on 12/03/2016 6:18:45 AM PST by gasport (Live and Let Live)
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To: KeyLargo
"Do Illegal Votes Decide Elections?

"There’s no way to know."

Well maybe there is:

President Trump should appoint a special commission, during the first days of his administration, to investigate voter fraud, apprehend and prosecute those guilty and complicit thereof, and take measure to prevent its ever happening again. Consequences must be swift, certain, and severe.

18 posted on 12/03/2016 6:19:22 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: gasport

One citizen, One vote.


19 posted on 12/03/2016 6:20:43 AM PST by gasport (Live and Let Live)
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To: KeyLargo
"There’s no way of knowing for sure. The voter-registration process in almost all states runs on the honor system."

Well this is obviously ridiculous prima facie! This flaw must be corrected immediately.

20 posted on 12/03/2016 6:21:12 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Ann Archy
..."And ONLY DEMOCRATS do VOTE FRAUD!!"

That's a pretty bold claim.

Until you consider democrats belief that they and they alone are the pillars of decency in the world.

What they believe is the the only proper way to think and act. As such, any and all policies toward that end are justified. And the rest of us are crap.

21 posted on 12/03/2016 6:21:50 AM PST by chiller (One from the Right - One for the Fight)
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To: kindred; governsleastgovernsbest
And in a strictly and completely UNRELATED news headline from a few days ago from a corrupt, democrat-controlled northern state with hundreds of thousands of alien residents and felons in its largest, most-corrupt cities :

Stewart Mills (R) Drops Recount in Close Congressional Race with Rick Nolan (D)” ...

Gee, only 2009 votes. Doesn't imply voter fraud matters at all, does it?

DFL Rick Nolan 179,097 50.17
Republ Stewart Mills 177,088 49.61

22 posted on 12/03/2016 6:22:08 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: KeyLargo

We better solve the problem of illegal voting or we’ll be looking at President Chelsea Clinton some day.


23 posted on 12/03/2016 6:22:13 AM PST by Ciexyz (After eight years of Obama, I can't afford to buy nothin'.)
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To: gasport
Comprehensive Election Reform

Which would include modification of Birthright Citizenship: your parents have to be here legally for you to be a citizen at birth.

Which would mean that ONLY people we invited in get to bless their children with citizenship in the United States.

And therefore eventually vote.

24 posted on 12/03/2016 6:25:54 AM PST by Regulator
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To: KeyLargo

“Do Illegal Votes Decide Elections?”

Not yet, but if we do away with the Electoral College, they will.

There are about 11.5 Million Illegals in the U.S.
3 Million of them live in California
1.2 Million of them live in L.A. County

Clinton won California by 3.5 million votes.
1.5 million in L.A. County alone (which means that she actually lost the other 49 states by about 1.5 million).

That means that the county of L.A. alone would have negated the popular results of 49 STATES! if the popular vote was how we chose the President. Unless my math is bad.


25 posted on 12/03/2016 6:27:08 AM PST by TruthBeforeAll
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To: KeyLargo

Thanks for the good post and a good starter set of solutions. I fear that more is required than leaving it up to states that “want to verify the citizenship of registered voters”, at least for federal elections. The worst problems are in states where the “ins” clearly do not want to curtail fraud of any sort, because they proper from cheating. With Republican House and Senate Majorities, and a President to sign reasonable legislation, I see no reason we can’t have federal legislation requiring states to enforce citizenship requirements rigorously, or lose their ability to participate in federal elections. Much of the Motor Voter bill should be repealed, and we need penalties for registration and voting fraud sufficient to act as a deterrent. Reigning in registration and voting on behalf of the mentally incapable is another goal, though one hard to achieve without danger of undesirable abuses.


26 posted on 12/03/2016 6:27:17 AM PST by Chewbarkah
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To: Ciexyz

Can you say President Ellison? I can’t.


27 posted on 12/03/2016 6:27:46 AM PST by gasport (One citizen - One vote)
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To: Savage Beast

“President Trump should appoint a special commission, during the first days of his administration, to investigate voter fraud, apprehend and prosecute those guilty and complicit thereof, and take measure to prevent its ever happening again. Consequences must be swift, certain, and severe.”

Yes, the sooner the better.

__________________________________________________________

Vote Fraud Group Supports Trump’s Claim on Illegal Voters

Kristinn Taylor Nov 28th, 2016 6:44 am 97 Comments

True the Vote, a group dedicated to rooting out vote fraud, issued a statement supporting the charge by President-Elect Donald Trump that millions of illegal votes were cast in the 2016 election.

HOUSTON, TX. – November 27, 2016: True the Vote (TTV), the nation’s leading voters’ rights and election integrity organization, today released a statement with respect to President-Elect Donald Trump’s claim that “millions” of individuals illegally voted in the 2016 Election.

“True the Vote absolutely supports President-elect Trump’s recent comment about the impact of illegal voting, as reflected in the national popular vote. We are still collecting data and will be for several months, but our intent is to publish a comprehensive study on the significant impact of illegal voting in all of its many forms and begin a national discussion on how voters, states, and the Trump Administration can best address this growing problem.”

True the Vote (TTV) is an IRS-designated 501(c)(3) voters’ rights organization, founded to inspire and equip voters for involvement at every stage of our electoral process. TTV empowers organizations and individuals across the nation to actively protect the rights of legitimate voters, regardless of their political party affiliation. For more information, please visit www.truethevote.org.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/vote-fraud-group-supports-trumps-claim-illegal-voters/


28 posted on 12/03/2016 6:28:15 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: SharpRightTurn
This is one of the first things Jeff Sessions should tackle. Start in California.

I'd say Arizona should be allowed to go first. Taxpayers here had to pay for lawsuits brought by Holder and Lynch that took down our ability to determine the citizenship of people voting in our elections.

Restore our photo voter ID law. Re-institute 1070.

29 posted on 12/03/2016 6:30:11 AM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Proudly deplorable since 2016. Lock Her Up!!!)
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To: Twotone
I would go a lot farther. People should be required to go IN PERSON to their county elections office to register to vote & present proof of citizenship & residency. That way the Dems can’t harvest votes from vagrants & nursing homes.

The challenge with that is that there are citizens with limited or no mobility (especially infirm seniors) who simply can't make it in person to register.

I don't know what the solution is, but that is a problem.

BTW, my daughter was eligible to vote for the first time in the election. I took her to our local town hall to register. The registration form had a check box stating that the registering applicant is a citizen. But absolutely no proof at all was required.

I think anybody found to have checked the citizen box without being a citizen ought to be subject to fines, prison and deportation. An advertising program informing people of that will certainly cut down on such fraudulent behavior. Obama didn't help by publicly telling illegals that there would be no consequences for voting as a non-citizen.

30 posted on 12/03/2016 6:34:18 AM PST by Maceman (Screw the Party. Save the Country.)
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To: KeyLargo
"Donald Trump’s claim that illegal voting may have cost him a popular-vote majority has touched off outrage."

Yes, among the malevolent whose defeat leaves them nothing but jeers and sneers.

"Widespread voter fraud, the media consensus suggests, isn’t possible."

Yes, so says the malevolent consensus that predicted Donald Trump's defeat.

"But there is a real chance that significant numbers of noncitizens and others are indeed voting illegally, perhaps enough to make up the margin in some elections."

Indeed, in fact President Barack Obama and others holding public office actually encouraged illegal immigrants to vote fraudulently.

31 posted on 12/03/2016 6:35:25 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Chewbarkah

“Catherine Engelbrecht, founder of Houston-based voters rights and election integrity organization True the Vote, said there aren’t enough firewalls in place in California, which she said has a more “porous” system than other states.

“They do offer non-citizens a way to get a drivers’ license and that comes part and parcel with the opportunity to vote,” Engelbrecht said. “Couple that to the fact that they don’t have to show an ID at the polls and it sets a tone for a potential free-for-all.”

She asserted that the upcoming motor-voter law will only exacerbate the problem.”

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/30/trump-and-vote-fraud-officials-say-its-just-not-happening/


32 posted on 12/03/2016 6:35:28 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Savage Beast

Catherine Engelbrecht: Voter Fraud Has Been ‘Institutionalized,’ Allowing Non-Citizen Voters to ‘Flood Our Rolls’

by John Hayward 29 Nov 2016

SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER

True the Vote President Catherine Engelbrecht joined SiriusXM host Alex Marlow on Tuesday’s Breitbart News Daily to discuss accusations of voter fraud in the 2016 election, including President-elect Donald Trump’s assertion that millions of ballots were cast by people who were not legally allowed to vote.

“You know what? I think we don’t really know,” Engelbrecht said of Trump’s allegation. “We put out a statement shortly after the President-elect’s comments came out, and we said that we support the belief that there could, in fact, have been millions of illegally cast votes, and we are doing tremendous amounts of research to try to get to some of those answers.”

“We set ourselves up, Alex, in a system where for a long time, nobody’s wanted to get answers, so questions haven’t been allowed to be asked,” she told Marlow. “That’s the paradigm that we now have to shatter.”

Marlow noted that while some illegal votes are certainly cast in every election, Trump’s dramatic claim of millions in 2016 was very broad. He asked Engelbrecht if she thought the number could really be that high.

“I think so, yes,” she replied. “And here’s why I think that: When we talk about fraud in sound bites, we often sort of get caught up in, oh, you know, the dead are voting, people are being bused in. Do those things happen, and are those all worthy of debate? Absolutely. But the real problem that we face is that fraud has been institutionalized. We have set up processes that allow for non-citizens, among other ways, but non-citizens certainly to flood into our rolls. And that’s just one of the ways that we set ourselves up with the potential for illegal votes.”

“I think that we are at a place now where we have an opportunity to have a sane conversation about the deconstruction of our process and the examination of the sieve that we’ve created and better ways to go forward,” she said.

Marlow criticized corporate media outlets, particularly CNN, for dismissing Trump’s allegation out of hand, without doing any research and without reminding their readers of notorious ballot hijinks from the past.

Read at: http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2016/11/29/catherine-engelbrecht-voter-fraud-institutionalized-non-citizen-voters-flood-rolls/


33 posted on 12/03/2016 6:39:44 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Maceman

Yes, there are always exceptions. But lots of people end up not being able to vote for one reason or another & I’d rather be strict on the side of making sure only legal citizens do so. We have ADA rules to make sure gov’t buildings in particular can accommodate the disabled. My husband is a submarine guy, & they’d be under water for three months at a time - out too long to even get an absentee ballot. And our military are regularly disenfranchised. If they can’t be accommodated, then I’d rather make sure illegals don’t take up the slack.


34 posted on 12/03/2016 6:46:37 AM PST by Twotone (Truth is hate to those who hate truth.)
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To: TruthBeforeAll

TRUE THE VOTE

FACEBOOK

https://www.facebook.com/TrueTheVote


35 posted on 12/03/2016 6:52:41 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Philad Louis. Detroit. Milwaukee. Saint Louis. Lax. SF. NYC. Etc. no more republicans. Communist/islamonazi dictatorship here we come.


36 posted on 12/03/2016 6:53:09 AM PST by faithhopecharity ("Politicians are not born. They're excreted." Marcus Tullius Cicero)
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To: KeyLargo
"The Obama administration has done everything it can to keep the status quo in place."

Of course. OBVIOUSLY Obama and the rest of the Democrats have been depending on voter fraud to keep them in power and increase their power until they can reach the point at which they are the only ones in power.

This too is obvious prima facie. This is a fundamental part of the malevolent, corrupt conspiracy of the Left--a coup d'état--of which the Democrat Party and its operatives are an integral part.

It was in counter-reaction to this that Donald Trump was elected to the Presidency.

It was in counter-reaction to this that he sought the Presidency, observing that he did so, not because he wanted to but because he had to.

SOMEBODY had to!!!

It is a blessing, a miracle, and a gift from God that enough Americans were aware of what's been going on to elect this HERO to the Presidency and thus save America.

He must take measures--and he must receive sufficient support--to assure that this evil conspiracy to stage a Leftist coup d'état and seize permanent control of the U.S.A. be permanently defeated--and that a stake be driven through its dark heart so that it can never arise again to threaten the Republic.

Assurances against voter fraud are essential.

37 posted on 12/03/2016 6:54:58 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: KeyLargo

If the truth be known—and perhaps it shall be—with the elimination of voter fraud, Trump’s victory was truly a landslide and a majority of all legal votes cast.


38 posted on 12/03/2016 6:59:41 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: InABunkerUnderSF

“I’d say Arizona should be allowed to go first. Taxpayers here had to pay for lawsuits brought by Holder and Lynch that took down our ability to determine the citizenship of people voting in our elections. Restore our photo voter ID law. Re-institute 1070.”

Good point and an excellent suggestion.


39 posted on 12/03/2016 7:01:45 AM PST by SharpRightTurn (White, black, and red all over--America's affirmative action, metrosexual president.)
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To: KeyLargo

Yes. Thanks, KeyLargo. The quote from the movie concerning voter fraud is a classic.


40 posted on 12/03/2016 7:03:00 AM PST by Savage Beast
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To: Regulator

Not exactly - “Non-citizen” also includes people that are here perfectly legally - but it is still illegal for them to vote because they are not citizens.


41 posted on 12/03/2016 7:06:14 AM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: KeyLargo
They absolutely decided most of the major races in New Hampshire.Same day registration plus busloads of schizophrenics coming up from Massachusetts (it's been proven) equals Rats winning tight races.
42 posted on 12/03/2016 7:08:10 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Deplorables' Lives Matter)
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To: KeyLargo

Of course the illegal vote sways things.

Unfortunately PACs have not focused on this issue. You can spend millions if not billions of dollars to sway a vote and not have it matter worth a damn if your opposition simply stuffs the ballot.


43 posted on 12/03/2016 7:10:51 AM PST by RKBA Democrat (Right versus left is no longer as relevant as Nationalist versus globalist.)
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To: KeyLargo

We should pass a law that says only states that require tamperproof ‘Real-ID’ for voter registration will be allowed to vote in ‘national’ elections.


44 posted on 12/03/2016 7:26:31 AM PST by Beagle8U (Long live Yoga Pants!)
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To: Savage Beast

And in other news:

Gitmo Prisoners ‘Thought It Was the End of the World’ on Election Night, Asked for Tranquilizers

http://www.weaselzippers.us/311154-gitmo-prisoners-thought-it-was-the-end-of-the-world-on-election-night-asked-for-tranquilizers/


45 posted on 12/03/2016 7:44:03 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: Ann Archy

Exactly! Liberals are masters at finding loopholes in the system...illegals are expert at it. I think it’s time to get rid of this “honor system”, there is no honor left in our country. We need tough voter ID laws and enforcement. Period.


46 posted on 12/03/2016 8:08:51 AM PST by katski
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To: TigerClaws

Obama should have been arrested when he told illegals to go and vote.

I hope Attorney General Sessions cleans up this mess.


47 posted on 12/03/2016 8:21:02 AM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (November 8, 2016..... Donald Trump schlongs Hillary Clinton. 306 Electoral Votes)
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To: Republican Wildcat

Good point.

Expand the numbers by another 30 million LPRs and that adds 2 million more to the illicit vote count.

Meaning The Beast won nothing.


48 posted on 12/03/2016 8:46:28 AM PST by Regulator
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To: Twotone

“People should be required to go IN PERSON to their county elections office to register to vote & present proof of citizenship & residency.”

Yes, and there should be a picture taken at that time and stored with the registration information. Whenever someone shows up to vote, they should have a picture taken at the time they sign for their ballot. Fake registration and illegal voters will think twice if there is mandatory photo documentation, and the threat to prosecute (and deport if illegal) fraudulent voters.


49 posted on 12/03/2016 9:17:07 AM PST by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: KeyLargo
Do Illegal Votes Decide Elections?

The very first question to address is; can illegals vote?

Before considering if illegal votes can decide elections you first must consider what an illegal immigrant can do before answering what an illegal immigrant did do.

50 posted on 12/03/2016 9:24:00 AM PST by MosesKnows (Love Many, Trust Few, and Always Paddle Your Own Canoe)
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