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I initially intended to first expand on "proof" of the rot, and its extent, but, the truth is, the examples are so now so blatant and numerous that, at least in this forum, there is no need. (Thank you also, Wikileaks.) I could be writing for days. Even in our general population, fear of corruption is a major worry (in some studies, THE #1 fear) of most citizens.

The question is, how can, as some have put it, the swamp be drained, and kept that way? Do we want to depend on some individual to somehow slog their way through the cesspool to the top, and then initiate reform? Can this even be done by an individual, unless he is supported by a massive social upheaval, which is itself powered by wide scale discontent of the peoples' situation? How bad does it have to get, and then, how is "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" avoided?

In our present situation, even if Donald Trump is elected, and turns out to be at least 50% of what we hope he will be, what permanent reforms need to be made? I am a great believer in the power of individuals to effect meaningful change, but, "the flesh is weak", and many, if not most, will fail in a system that is built to defeat them. Donald Trump himself admits that his success, until very recently, was due to him USING the system better than most, not by fighting it.

(As an aside, Trump himself has been hazy on why he changed course. Did his conscience finally win out? Was it initially just another challenge, or a desire to "give back", then becoming a feeling of "Oh, my God, these millions of people are depending on ME?")

Can we depend on Providence to always provide us with "the right people, in the right place, at the right time"? (A quote from Babylon 5) Or, would God be more pleased to see us devise a system to preclude decades, if not generations, of unnecessary pain, and wasted human potential?

One answer, of course, is that provided by our Founding Fathers. They knew that history taught that all governments eventually rot. A small, decentralized, rotten government is easier to deal with than a powerful rotten government. We are (or should be) all familiar with Thomas Jefferson's words:

Paris Nov. 13. 1787.

the people can not be all, & always, well informed. the part which is wrong [. . .] will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. if they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. we have had 13. states independant 11. years. there has been one rebellion. that comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. what country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure.

Now, that is really meaty stuff, deserving of its own discussion, but here I'll limit my OT comments to: Jefferson's remarkable observation / prescience concerning the 150 year "boundary" or maximum cycle. Guess what, friends...

---

It'd be desirable to limit the bloodshed (especially of the patriots!), and lengthen the stable part of the cycle, substantially.

Obviously, once "the swamp" is almost everywhere, the first step is the revolution, be it peaceful, or if that fails, violent. The best case scenario now would be for Trump to win, and install honest, vigorous people at the top of the Dept. of Justice. I would suggest Rudy Guiliani as AG, and Chris Christie, Ted Cruz, and Sarah Palin as his lieutenants. (Yes, Sarah Palin - while she lacks a formal legal background and has other liabilities, in Alaska she was a fearless and effective fighter against corruption.)

That is, however, only a start. It is subject to human weakness and also subject to political whim: What we do not want is a system where corruption persists, and the gov't rocks back and forth with the winner in each election jailing his / her opponents. Put another way, a system where everyone is corrupt, and only the winners stay out of jail, is not very helpful.

So, we return to my original question, but with a little more "direction": What kind of reforms, up to and including Constitutional Amendments, need to be made, especially to our system of Justice, to purge corruption and systemic collusion from those who would rule us, both inside and outside of government?

I think this involves much(!) heavier penalties for corruption, collusion, lack of transparency, and the like, and somehow getting much more involvement of citizens, perhaps somewhat like jury calls (but with better compensation!). Then give them every tool they need, in leading, LEADING, the fight against corruption.

Like Jefferson, I have a lot of faith in ordinary people. So, I think we already have the right people. We just need to put them in the right place(s), with the right tools. The time is as long as we can keep this country together.

I am very interested in suggestions, and who knows, maybe Mr. Trump would be, as well. Thanks, and have a great weekend!

1 posted on 10/21/2016 1:06:22 PM PDT by Paul R.
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To: Paul R.

Lampposts. Lots and lots and lots of lampposts.


2 posted on 10/21/2016 1:07:49 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Paul R.

It’s all about leverage.


3 posted on 10/21/2016 1:08:04 PM PDT by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: Paul R.

I should also add that Donald Trump’s proposals regarding lobbyists and term limits are useful, and I support them, but they do not go nearly far enough in solving a problem that has been around as long as governments have been around.


4 posted on 10/21/2016 1:10:11 PM PDT by Paul R.
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To: Paul R.

DEMAND PHOTO ID FOR REGISTRATION AND VOTING.

All objections convey support for FRAUD.


5 posted on 10/21/2016 1:11:36 PM PDT by G Larry (Avoiding the Truth-Hillary's only expertise)
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To: Paul R.

START DEMANDING MANDATORY MINIUM 10 YEARS JAIL TIME FOR GOVERNMENT FRAuD


6 posted on 10/21/2016 1:14:31 PM PDT by Mr. K (Trump is running against EVERYONE. The Democrats, The Media, and the establishment GOP)
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To: Paul R.

Do we want to depend on some individual to somehow slog their way through the cesspool

Culture. If it is too degraded then we are done.


7 posted on 10/21/2016 1:15:19 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job....)
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To: Paul R.
First is Term Limits.
Entrenched career politicians are half the problem.

Next: Dump this Withholding crap out of paychecks and MAKE everyone
write a check on April 15th.

Then do two things: Move election day to April 16th

AND rope is free on that day too.

9 posted on 10/21/2016 1:18:48 PM PDT by red-dawg
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To: Paul R.

Plenty of rope and a lot of strong branches


10 posted on 10/21/2016 1:18:56 PM PDT by Mjreagan
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To: Paul R.

Lock and load. Aim small, miss small.


14 posted on 10/21/2016 1:27:08 PM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: Paul R.

Every district that is represented by a weasel like we were with Eric Cantor needs to do what we did and Cantorize them, take them out in a primary.
Wisconsin CD1 failed the rest of the country when they failed to Cantorize the head weasel, Paul RINO.
We have term limits in our hands if we would only use the ballot box correctly.


15 posted on 10/21/2016 1:28:10 PM PDT by Lurkinanloomin (Know Islam, No Peace - No Islam , Know Peace)
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To: Paul R.

The NUMBER ONE amendment needed to the Constitution hands down is this:

Voters lose their right to vote upon receiving any direct or indirect compensation, loan, welfare, future promise of benefit from the federal government and its agencies.

This right to vote will be restored at two years after the last cent has been received. The only exception is that military members get their voting rights back upon honorable discharge.

Yes, soldiers would not be able to vote, but that protects against military juntas too.

Without the above reform, any new country will eventually degenerate to the situation we have today.

Look....the truth is that we cannot reform at this point and it will be probably be a war at some point.

But it all starts with a leader.


19 posted on 10/21/2016 1:37:30 PM PDT by Sapwolf (Talkers are usually more articulate than doers, since talk is their specialty. -Sowell)
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To: Paul R.

A war fought with stealth and surprise? It may have to eventually come down to this? They are hoping we will fight them in traditional styles so they can kill us off in droves. If it comes down to this lone rangers or armies won’t due. It will have to be organized, secret and effective.


22 posted on 10/21/2016 1:43:29 PM PDT by Bellflower (Dems = Mat 6:23 ....If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!)
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To: Paul R.

Once Mr. Trump is elected, he hires all new federal prosecutors, letting them know there is effectively a “bounty” on rooting out unlawful actors in the government. Those who successfully indict and prosecute the most of them move up the chain.

Those who are not so active, for whatever reason, are tasked to vigorously start prosecuting non-governmental criminal actors who have been ignored by the Obama administration. For example liberal and leftist organizations actively involved in public agitation, riot and vote fraud.

At the same time, Mr. Trump should keep Obama’s disgusting Operation Choke Point, but instruct the Justice Department to change the *targets* of Choke Point to leftist and corrupt organizations like Planned Parenthood. Choke Point openly coerced the banks to deny legitimate businesses banking services. Imagine what would happen if they did that to PP?


24 posted on 10/21/2016 1:46:08 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Friday, January 20, 2017. Reparations end.)
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To: Paul R.

Similar question: “Does the right to bear arms” mean you only have the right to march in formation, or are you allowed to actually use them in the face of tyranny?

So if someone shoots a tyrant, is the 2nd amendment a good defense in court?


25 posted on 10/21/2016 2:01:45 PM PDT by fruser1
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To: Paul R.

Firing Squads


27 posted on 10/21/2016 2:11:08 PM PDT by DarthVader (Politicians govern out of self interest, Statesmen govern for a Vision greater than themselves)
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To: Paul R.
I suspect that the reality is that in order for meaningful change you'll need a scenario somewhat like what happened in the novel Unintended Consequences. The trouble is, that particular novel was written before the powers that be managed to implement pretty much universal surveillance all across the US. If you doubt the level of this surveillance, just consider the cameras that you see at every highway intersection with a red light. Think about how easy it would be for someone to track back through just those cameras if they want to identify someone traveling. Toll roads don't even need to be manned any more. They just read your plate. There are other methods to use to identify automobiles as well. If you have a recent model car, chances are you have sensors in your tire that monitor air pressure. There is no physical connection to the controller in the car. It's all done wirelessly. These wireless transmitters also have unique identifiers in them that they use to make sure that the car is only talking to its own tires, and not any of the vehicles that you are around at the moment. See http://www.winlab.rutgers.edu/~Gruteser/papers/xu_tpms10.pdf for a vulnerability assessment of these devices. The potential for abuse is huge. And of course, any potential will doubtless be taken advantage of by our feral government, and that is just one method you might not even be aware of.

In any potential coming war, the citizens are going to be at a distinct informational disadvantage. More so, because people don't really realize how tied together all this stuff is and how easy it is to pull together a massive amount of information and mine it for what you want. The amount of money currently being spent on this stuff is not known, but its probably orders of magnitude beyond what even I think it is, and I've been paranoid about this stuff for decades.

This is something that is going to have to be considered.

People would be well advised to start boning up on how to use strong cryptography, and how to do dead drops on the internet so it is not easily traced back to any specific individual.

29 posted on 10/21/2016 2:23:16 PM PDT by zeugma (Welcome to the "interesting times" you were warned about.)
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To: Paul R.

Tar and feathers. Rope and a tall tree. Drawing and quartering. These seemed to be tried and true methods once upon a time.

What was once old, is new again.


32 posted on 10/21/2016 2:29:47 PM PDT by AFreeBird (BEST. ELECTION. EVER!)
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To: Paul R.

Human nature is what it is. In my religion we understand it as two powerful urges we are given. The urge to do what is right, and the urge to do what is wrong. The latter seems to go wild when not in check. Our way of self government will always lead to it (corruption) because it is freedom and individual oriented.

We presume a man is innocent. Thus we presume our leaders are good and honest.

It’s not working. The branches were supposed to balance each other. Better to have them at each other’s throats. But today they are colluding by will or by threat. The media was supposed to be a way for Everyman to have a private detective uncovering scandal and corruption. Own the media, you own the message. Now we have propaganda distributors calling themselves news sources.

I honestly do not understand why constitutional freedom lovers don’t have BIGGER media sources. There are as many of us as libs. Why do they get all the media power, and we, so little?

Our biggest problem is our fellow Americans who don’t respect the rule of law, honesty, and good deeds. Half of the country thinks Hillary Clinton is a decent person, “experienced,” and a valid candidate for President.

Almost none of the country knew that Barack Obama had citizenship issues. We still don’t know what his situation is, after eight years of his being our President. There is no proof he ever was a citizen: this is true. Maybe he is. There was no proof, though. A country who is ok with blatant ignorance can’t go far. They are too ignorant to understand we are supposed to control our government.


41 posted on 10/21/2016 3:03:01 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: Paul R.

I want either less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it.


43 posted on 10/21/2016 4:15:01 PM PDT by Joe Bfstplk (A Deplorable in Texas)
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To: Paul R.; All

Thanks, everyone! This thread is already down to “page 3”, so unfortunately we probably won’t get a lot more ideas and comments. But, I do appreciate the replies - well, most of them!

Have a great evening!


49 posted on 10/21/2016 6:49:40 PM PDT by Paul R.
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