Posted on 08/31/2016 7:27:42 PM PDT by NoLibZone
>>”How come without tariffs, GM’s cars STILL suck?”
There was another government bailout. Too big to fail and all that.
Did you support that one too?
"When it comes to finding the maker of the most American of U.S.-made cars — the one that's built in an American factory with the most domestically produced parts — look no further than Japan."
Japan's Toyota has the most made-in-the USA car: Camry
“Sorry, Detroit’s failure is not Japan’s fault. “
Sorry but to claim Japan has nothing to do with the demise of Detroit is, absurd.
“Would you put a tax on their cars built in the U.S. also - to protect jobs in Detroit.”
No tariffs are for imports not on products built in the USA.
Duh.
”How come without tariffs, GM’s cars STILL suck?”
“There was another government bailout. Too big to fail and all that.”
That is not a cogent answer. GM cars sucked long before the bailout. In fact they had to be bailed out because their cars SUCKED for years and years despite “free trade” with the better Jap cars.
So again why without tariffs, have GM cars sucked for decades? According to your “free-trade logic” that problem should have remedied itself long ago.
“Did you support that one too?”
No, Do you support the graduated income tax over tariffs?
>>>So again why without tariffs, have GM cars sucked for decades? According to your “free-trade logic” that problem should have remedied itself long ago.
Free trade did remedy it: GM lost market share, sucky cars lost to better built cars.
GM continued to exist, selling sucky cars because of government inervention. You do remember the GM bailout, yes?
“Free trade did remedy it: GM lost market share, sucky cars lost to better built cars.”
Sigh.
That’s NOT “free market”, when Jap cars are gov subsidized.
“GM continued to exist, selling sucky cars because of government inervention. You do remember the GM bailout, yes?”
So in your world, Gov subsidized Jap cars should take market share from non-gov subsidized GM, and you’ll call that ‘free-market’ and then pat yourself on the back.
No thanks.
We need to complete, which means Gov subsidizing GM (NO!) or putting up tariffs. (and fix lot’s of other internal stuff at GM)
>>>putting up tariffs. (and fix lot’s of other internal stuff at GM)
If you succeed in your purpose to raise the price of GM’s competitors, then you have reduced the incentive for GM to fix anything.
Americans who, according to your theory, are making the wrong buying choice, will be punished if they continue buying better quality cars - they’ll have to pay more for the privilege.
If enough still don’t come around and buy GM, in your scenario, do you raise the price of their competitors still more?
Until when? How much? What’s your goal here, what is your metric that you use to say: “ok, that’s the right amount to raise the prices on X.”
Or do we just let the politicians figure that part out?
“If you succeed in your purpose to raise the price of GM’s competitors, then you have reduced the incentive for GM to fix anything.”
Lol, there’s been no tariffs and GM has faced low-price competitors and has NOT fixed anything.
“Americans who, according to your theory, are making the wrong buying choice, will be punished if they continue buying better quality cars - they’ll have to pay more for the privilege.”
Temporarily prices do rise, eventually they fall. It’s not my theory, it’s factual as born out by over 100 years of American tariffs coupled with extreme economic growth.
“If enough still don’t come around and buy GM, in your scenario, do you raise the price of their competitors still more?”
It’s clear that “enough” aren’t buying them now. Do you send MORE tax money, more subsidizes to GM?
Or do you let them go bankrupt and fail and we all buy subsidized foreign cars for ever and ever?
“Until when? How much? What’s your goal here,”
The goal is to protect America, American economy and American jobs.
“what is your metric that you use to say: “ok, that’s the right amount to raise the prices on X.”
What is your metric to raise income tax rates? “ok that’s the right amount we need to pay off interest in debt”?
“Or do we just let the politicians figure that part out?”
That’s how it’s working now. I don’t know who else would be in charge of setting tariff rates, but I’m open to any ideas from you.
People who imposed/supported Tariffs:
Ronald Reagan
William McKinley
George W Bush
George Washington
Calvin Coolidge
Me
People who oppose Tariffs:
Karl Marx
George Soros
George Will
Hillary Clinton
You
See whose side your on.
I’m for a flat consumption tax.
“Until when? How much? What’s your goal here,”
>>> It’s clear that “enough” aren’t buying them now. Do you send MORE tax money, more subsidizes to GM?
No. You want to subsidize them with tariffs. I don’t.
>>Or do you let them go bankrupt and fail
They went bankrupt - except the government ‘too big to fail way.’ With the unions making out like bandits and GM not having to improve their product or efficiency.
Japanese companies built factories in the U.S., employing U.S. workers in order to reduce transportation costs (um, market forces). They now produce the most popular American-made and assembled cars on the market.
>>>”and we all buy subsidized foreign cars for ever and ever?”
We buy what we decide to buy, not what government decides we should buy. If other countries want to tax their citizens to give our citizens transportation they choose is in their best interest, I’m all for it.
Your argument boils down to “consumers aren’t choosing right, we have to make it more painful to them, so they’ll choose what *you* think they should.”
That’s not freedom.
There are several orders of magnitude more consumers of transportation than there are producers of transportation.
Your plan would take from the many - consumers of transportation - to give to the few - the producers of transportation. That’s what government does: takes from the many to give to the few.
That’s what government does.
And politicians increase their control over us, deciding who gets government favors - by taking from the many and giving to the few.
I’m for freedom and liberty, not for more government control over our lives.
“I’m for a flat consumption tax.”
A tariff really isn’t much different from that.
“No. You want to subsidize them with tariffs. I don’t.”
Tariffs don’t subsidize, they protect. Right now we have subsidizes, money going out of your pocket to GM (and others). That’s not the case with tariffs.
“They went bankrupt - except the government ‘too big to fail way.’ With the unions making out like bandits and GM not having to improve their product or efficiency.”
Right. Like I said, they’re subsidized with tax dollars. Tariffs don’t subsidize.
“Japanese companies built factories in the U.S., employing U.S. workers in order to reduce transportation costs (um, market forces). They now produce the most popular American-made and assembled cars on the market.”
Great, tariffs would encourage more of that.
“We buy what we decide to buy, not what government decides we should buy. “
Government decides how much you get in your paycheck. You lose money to the gov based on THEIR decisions, before you even get paid.
“If other countries want to tax their citizens to give our citizens transportation they choose is in their best interest, I’m all for it.”
In essence you’re NOT for an Independent America but one that’s dependent on others for goods and services. All for the short-term gain of cheap consumables that eventually you have to pay to get rid of.
“Your argument boils down to “consumers aren’t choosing right, we have to make it more painful to them, so they’ll choose what *you* think they should.”
That’s not my argument, but it could be perceived that way. My argument is: We’re under economic attack and we need to protect America.
“That’s not freedom.”
Neither is having your pay confiscated, nor being dependent on foreigners for your needs.
That’s not Independence, nor Self-Reliant.
“There are several orders of magnitude more consumers of transportation than there are producers of transportation.
Your plan would take from the many - consumers of transportation - to give to the few - the producers of transportation. That’s what government does: takes from the many to give to the few.”
“That’s what government does.”
Tariffs don’t change that, they’re doing that now with your paycheck, and just about everything else.
“And politicians increase their control over us, deciding who gets government favors - by taking from the many and giving to the few.”
Again, that’s happening now, worse than it’s ever been. In the past we had nothing BUT tariffs and MUCH more FREEDOM.
“I’m for freedom and liberty, not for more government control over our lives.”
(Me too). Then look to our history.
And look to who is FOR tariffs and who is AGAINST tariffs.
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