Posted on 08/31/2016 7:27:42 PM PDT by NoLibZone
Typos corrected, content the same:
>>So the the founding fathers, who were all patriots, installed tariffs as the first act of the first congress “collectivists”? I see history is not your strong suit.
History is my strongest suit. That and the constitution.
It’s not the same world, economy, government, tax system of 1790.
Include in your tariff proposal the repeal of the income tax, and then get back to me.
Ok?
Deal?
>>>The other countries may be confused, but they have our $12 trillon dollars.
Do you know where they have to spend those dollars?
CHINAH!
Right on my FRiend.
Wrong answer.
“Do you know where they have to spend those dollars?”
Building up their own countries. Obviously, it is not in the United States, if that is where you are going with that question.
What both men are saying can be true. The Mexican Pres could have made the statement and then Trump changed the subject. In reality, sounds like a win for Trump. He now has the Mexican Pres on record agreeing that there will be a wall. The only disagreement is who is paying for it, and we hold all the cards on that topic. We can tax money going to Mexico or goods entering from Mexico. We can also seize cartel assets.
The “Golden Rule” of business. He who has the gold makes the rules.
So is this the same world Adam Smith lived in? You can't pick and chose relativism from then and now. The Constitution is good now but to you what the founding fathers actually did under the Constitution is out dated. What a moronic thought.
PS: For those born yesterday; the issues of trade, industry and economic wealth creation/destruction haven't changed in 5000 years. Since the first Egyptians then the Phoenicians took to the seas.
You ever try to spend dollars in China? Or Japan, or Germany...
The dollars have to come back to the U.S. to be spent.
When you stipulate re-instituting the same income tax system of 1790, we can discuss increasing tariff taxes.
“Tariffs cost jobs from the many, ‘protect’ jobs for the few.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3ruapRQZk";
Lol, 1980! Back in ‘80 there was so much production (and jobs) in the midwest it was causing “acid rain” here in the northeast.
That’s not a problem anymore.
Those guys aren’t producing anywhere close to those days, if fact most of them now are probably on welfare.
I wonder if ole Milty would say today about tariffs with 95 million Americans NOT working.
“It’s a form of collectivism.”
Yeah George Washington and those collectivist founding fathers, what a bunch of commies.
The job loss here in the US has reached EPIC proportions.
There’s no where for production workers to go, they don’t have the education or skills for anything other than walmart greeter or welfare.
A vicious downward spiral into a non-producing 3rd world country.
Seen Detroit lately?
Still think tariffs on imported cars is bad?
Meanwhile all those dollars spent abroad, well they end up back at the fedgov (treasuries). Guess what, WE have to pay interest on those treasuries, so taxes go up to pay the ever increasing interest on debt.
Everytime you buy a foreign product your taxes will have to go up and you’ll have to pay interest on your purchase.
Foreign made products only appear to be cheap. In the long run you, your kids, your grandkids will be paying for every car, tv, iphone for years and years and years.
Better for them to be dependent of government, than have any of those nasty collectivist tariffs.
Where to begin?
>>>”Seen Detroit lately?”
And you think that’s Japan’s fault? Think a tariff bailout - raising the cost of cars for everyone else for Detroit’s benefit - would make GM produce better cars?
>>>”Seen Detroit lately?”
“And you think that’s Japan’s fault?”
You’re right, Japan is completely blameless./s
“Think a tariff bailout - raising the cost of cars for everyone else for Detroit’s benefit - would make GM produce better cars?”
Strawman. No not at all, and that’s not the goal of tariffs nor my point.
The goal is to keep manufacturing jobs here in the US.
The quality of cars from GM is another matter completely.
You’re confused on econ 101.
“The dollars have to come back to the U.S. to be spent.”
I have heard that line before. You people who chatter that line are helpless and hopeless. China can buy oil and anything else on the market that takes dollars,and they exchange them for Euros and any other currency. And they buy U. S. Treasury bonds. They own our debt. We are a debtor nation.
>>China can buy oil and anything else on the market that takes dollars,and they exchange them for Euros and any other currency. And they buy U. S. Treasury bonds.
And those dollars, spent on oil, exhanged for Eruors, invested in T-Bonds, come back to the U.S., the only place where one can spend dollars.
“Think a tariff bailout - raising the cost of cars for everyone else for Detroit’s benefit - would make GM produce better cars?”Artificially keep jobs at GM, at what cost to other jobs? You think you can raise the cost of transportation for everyone - decreasing their standard of living, removing their buying power for other goods and services, increase the cost of doing business for millions of companies, decreasing their competitiveness - and not cost jobs in other sectors. All in order to "keep manufacturing jobs" in Detroit?
Strawman. No not at all, and that’s not the goal of tariffs nor my point. The goal is to keep manufacturing jobs here in the US.
Who makes this calculation that magically results in the right jobs 'protected' at the expense of others? With the end result the greatest good for the most people? Managing these calculations now, tomorrow, forever. With, of course, no political distortions, totally objective doing the best for you and I - unless we're not in the right district, industry, protected job class...
Politicians wielding big government bureaucracy. Not individuals, free to act in their own interest. The angels of government decide. We can trust them to run the economy and decide which jobs are 'protected' and who pays for the protection.
But the politicians, the savant angels can manage the economy for the good of all, even at the expense of many. We mustn't trust the people to make their own choices of how to spend their money. They might choose wrong.
Sorry friend, you travel down the road of bigger government, socialism and big government knows best how to run a fee economy.
And if you're not free economically, you're not free.
Repent and embrace conservatism and free enterprise. The best system yet devised that brings the most good to the most people, resulting in the greatest standard of living ever, the least poverty ever, the greatest opportunity for all ever. Free people determining the value of goods and services; free people receiving the value of their goods and services provided.
Give up on "government knows best." Give up on giving up more of your freedom to politicians. That's not conser
>>”The quality of cars from GM is another matter completely.”
How is the quality of GM’s product divorced from your proposed need to artificially increase the cost of its competitors in order to force more GM sales in order to protect GM jobs?
“...come back to the U.S., the only place where one can spend dollars.”
Yep, you are insane. You can spend dollars about anywhere in the world.
The Chinese are also coming over here and buying up the place. But you probably like that.
“How is the quality of GM’s product divorced from your proposed need to artificially increase the cost of its competitors in order to force more GM sales in order to protect GM jobs?”
How come without tariffs, GM’s cars STILL suck?
“Artificially keep jobs at GM, at what cost to other jobs?”
At cost of jobs in Japan.
“You think you can raise the cost of transportation for everyone - decreasing their standard of living, “
You think a massive increase in US manufacturing would “decrease the standard of living”...Lol sometimes you Freetraders just slay me!
“removing their buying power for other goods and services, increase the cost of doing business for millions of companies,”
Millions of FOREIGN companies.
“decreasing their competitiveness - and not cost jobs in other sectors. All in order to “keep manufacturing jobs” in Detroit?”
No to keep manufacturing jobs in all of the USA.
“Who makes this calculation that magically results in the right jobs ‘protected’ at the expense of others?”
The ‘expense of others’ would be in Japan, Mexico, China and is of no concern of ours. It’s their problem.
“With the end result the greatest good for the most people?”
It would result in the greatest good for most AMERICANS.
I’m beginning to wonder whose side your on? You sound like some sort of globalist.
“Politicians wielding big government bureaucracy. Not individuals, free to act in their own interest.”
That’s what we have now.
“But the politicians, the savant angels can manage the economy for the good of all, even at the expense of many. We mustn’t trust the people to make their own choices of how to spend their money. They might choose wrong.”
Every other country we compete against has what you describe. Government subsidized export industry, tariffs on US goods, and free access to US markets. We’re being attacked and we’re not even fighting.
“Sorry friend, you travel down the road of bigger government, socialism and big government knows best how to run a fee economy.”
Lol, If other countries were building up their military and attacking us, you’d want BIG government to respond with huge military spending and call yourself a “conservative”, but for some bizarre reason you SUPPORT being economically attacked. You’re weird.
“And if you’re not free economically, you’re not free.”
I want to be free to enact tariffs.
“Repent and embrace conservatism and free enterprise. “
Keep telling yourself that as you buy government subsidized foreign products from abroad.
You’re in la-la land.
“The best system yet devised that brings the most good to the most people, resulting in the greatest standard of living ever, the least poverty ever, the greatest opportunity for all ever. “
Is slowly being destroyed, opportunity waning, poverty rising, standard of living dropping like a rock.
What’s that they say about insanity? Keep doing the same thing...
“Free people determining the value of goods and services; free people receiving the value of their goods and services provided.”
Free people protecting their jobs, their culture, their way of life.
“Give up on “government knows best.”
I have! Why don’t you? Government and all who depend on her support your position. Government/globalists/communists makes a KILLING on “free-trade”.
Every foreign product you buy, those dollars eventually end up back at the fedgov.
Makes the fedgov richer, more powerful, more controlling.
Tariffs would allow for LOWER taxes inside the US.
Time to take some econ classes, and wake up.
You’re on the same side as George Soros, Karl Marx and every globalist in existence and you still THINK you’re a conservative?
BWHSHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
Give up on giving up more of your freedom to politicians. That’s not conser
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