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What China Learned from America's Biggest World War Two Naval Victory
The National Interest ^ | June 3, 2016 | Lyle J. Goldstein

Posted on 06/03/2016 8:35:30 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

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1 posted on 06/03/2016 8:35:30 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

How many females, homosexuals, and transsexuals will be among the ship’s company?


2 posted on 06/03/2016 8:43:49 PM PDT by Steely Tom (Vote GOP: A Slower Handbasket)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
SCARY!
I do have faith in the Chinese government to continue their standard practice of TALK BIG and never follow through. Their "great leaps forward" were a sham for world consumption.

Where will they get their raw materials when they run out? China apparently is consuming them at staggering amounts. African raw materials won't last forever. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e6b692ec-5e2f-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html#axzz4AZxeRONx

3 posted on 06/03/2016 8:48:02 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Steely Tom
How many females, homosexuals, and transsexuals will be among the ship’s company?

Zero, of course.
Don't you know that there AREN'T ANY over there? Lol. No one in his/her right mind would ever admit to that shameful lifestyle because HIS/HER family would be the ones to suffer.

4 posted on 06/03/2016 8:49:48 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: sukhoi-30mki
Moreover, it is noted that the four Japanese aircraft carriers were protected by a dedicated force of two battleships, three cruisers and twelve destroyers, but such a force “certainly could not provide an effective screen for four aircraft carriers” against air and submarine attack from multiple vectors.

The only US submarine of note at the Midway battle was the Nautilus, regardless of Admiral Nagumo's fears.  Plus, American torpedoes were pieces of crap the first two years of the war.  They seldom hit anything, and many sub patrols came back to base having the same performance that the pre-1020 bomber/attack/torpedo planes had on Japanese ships that day, which is to say hapless, worthless, and dealing no damage whatever.  American expertise in carrier battle tactics were not in the same league as the Imperial Navy's co-ordinated assaults.

Additionally, Japanese battle doctrine was weighted strongly to offense, not defense, which worked with great success pre-Coral Sea, but ultimately doomed them. 

Another mistake pointed out in this piece is that the Japanese carrier strike force had two contradictory missions at Midway, both supporting the invasion of the island and also destroying the U.S. Navy forces in the area, so that at a critical juncture, the Japanese Navy was “chasing two rabbits at the same time”

They also lost a carrier at Coral Sea that should have been part of the MI attack, in addition to the carrier forces sent to attack the Aleutian Islands which was a silly game for a silly reward.  These two albatrosses were foisted on Yamamoto as conditions for approving the MI attack, but he made little objection.  Rather than concentrate massed forces, which Japanese military doctrine dictated, this "shotgun" approach diluted the Main Force was another massive mistake.

In the end, the conclusion is that Japan might have succeeded in bringing about a negotiated settlement with the US if only it had more cautiously sought out battles that were advantageous in time and space to the Japanese Navy.

This never would have happened.  Had Midway been lost,  Japan could never have invaded and occupied Hawaii.  They did not have the transport ability to keep such a captured garrison supplied, especially having to bring the supplies from half a world away in a submarine infested ocean.

Additionally, the most powerful nation on the planet with unmatched productive capacity would never negotiate with a smaller country which had launched a sneak attack such as Pearl Harbor.

7 posted on 06/03/2016 9:04:02 PM PDT by sparklite2 ( "The white man is the Jew of Liberal Fascism." -Jonah Goldberg)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

later


8 posted on 06/03/2016 9:09:48 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: sparklite2
There is a good website called combinedfleet (iirc) that details the production of our Essex fleet carriers combined to the Japanese carrier production.

Even if we'd lost all three carriers at Midway we would have equaled the Japanese in late 43 and surpassed them in 44. This does not count the escort carriers.

And consider we began to slow carrier production in 45 as we knew we were going to win the war.

9 posted on 06/03/2016 9:20:32 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

At the end of the war, the US had 27 aircraft carriers.


10 posted on 06/03/2016 9:26:22 PM PDT by sparklite2 ( "The white man is the Jew of Liberal Fascism." -Jonah Goldberg)
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To: sparklite2

I know. We kicked tail.


11 posted on 06/03/2016 9:28:55 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Aircraft carriers seem to be putting all the eggs in one vulnerable basket. I would think they would all be gone a few days into a serious war. Strafing wogs in gunboat diplomacy is one thing. Against a first or second tier power, would they really last that long?


13 posted on 06/03/2016 10:05:43 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (We are at that point, where we stand with Leonidas, or slither with Ephialtes.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
I was 9-years old at the time and can still vividly remember sitting with my grandparents listening to the radio, some days later, of this momentous, uplifting victory. It was the time when we knew absolutely that those slant-eyed jap bastards were going to lose the war.

For me and my brother it gave some hope for the safe return of my dad (Marine) from the South Pacific and our mother from the 16 hour a day job in a defense factory.

14 posted on 06/03/2016 10:05:54 PM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We entered the war with six fleet carriers, two in the Atlantic and four in the Pacific, and soon transferred one from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

The Japanese thought they had sunk two at Coral Sea, with a third in dry dock following Wake Island. This left us with two, they thought. The main purpose of their attack on Midway was to draw out the American fleet and destroy what remained of it.

They had some problems amassing their own forces, with the attack on the Aleutians and losses - including pilots and aircraft - at Coral Sea. For lack of pilots and aircraft, it was an easy decision for them to leave one of their fleet carriers in dry dock and send “only” four to Midway. Still, four flattops should have been enough.

In large measure, we won the Battle of Midway because the Yorktown was quickly returned to service, giving us three flattops.


15 posted on 06/03/2016 10:09:05 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Redmen4ever

The greatest factor was possibly our intelligence operations.
Other key ingredients were the failure of Operation K, Nagumo’s refusal to commit fighter planes to search missions,
and not knowing where American forces were or how many carriers we had deployed.


16 posted on 06/03/2016 10:17:24 PM PDT by sparklite2 ( "The white man is the Jew of Liberal Fascism." -Jonah Goldberg)
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To: ealgeone; sparklite2

The late war pictures of Task Force 58 are breathtaking.

https://afatherswarstorynevertold.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/highflight-operationa-go8.jpg


17 posted on 06/03/2016 11:48:07 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: sparklite2; ealgeone; sukhoi-30mki
sparklite: "At the end of the war, the US had 27 aircraft carriers."

By my informal count the US produced for WWII:

Of the CV & CVLs, seven were sunk.

Light carriers, such as the USS San Jacinto (CVL-30) which participated in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, also included a young pilot named George Bush who was later shot down doing ground attacks over Chichijima.

Even smaller escort carriers were capable of combat, for example: providing air support for ground troops at Leyte Gulf.
An escort carrier task group also defeated a Japanese force of battle ships & cruisers off Samar.

Depending on how you count, other reports vary and this source says:

That would make 29 CVs & CVLs built, which would not seem to include the seven (or eight) already in service on December 7, 1941.

18 posted on 06/04/2016 12:42:33 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Redmen4ever; sukhoi-30mki
Redmen4ever: "We entered the war with six fleet carriers, two in the Atlantic and four in the Pacific, and soon transferred one from the Atlantic to the Pacific."

Actually, on December 7, 1941 there were seven fleet carriers plus two, in effect, escort carriers.
Of those, in the Pacific:

  1. Lexington (CV2) stationed at Pearl arrived near Midway.
  2. Enterprise (CV6) stationed at Pearl returned from Wake Island.
  3. Saratoga (CV3) still in San Diego after repairs.
  4. Obsolescent Langley (CV1) stationed in the Philippines.

In the Atlantic:

  1. Ranger (CV4) remained in the Atlantic.
  2. Long Island (CVE1) escort carrier remained in the Atlantic.
  3. Yorktown (CV5) transferred to the Pacific, December 30, 1941.
  4. Hornet (CV8) transferred to the Pacific, March 1942.
  5. Wasp (CV7) transferred to the Pacific, June 1942.

So, of the US nine carriers on December 7, 1941, seven served in the Pacific and of those, only Enterprise and Saratoga survived the war.
19 posted on 06/04/2016 1:08:46 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Psalm 144
It isn't who has the most carriers, it's who can build the most carriers to replace the ones lost on battle. The USA has one shipyard that can produce one carrier every 5 years. Granted in a real war they could probably build one per year but that is not enough. China will overwhelm the USA. The biggest threat to the USA in de industrialization, lack of shipyards and skilled workers.
20 posted on 06/04/2016 4:04:26 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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