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To: betty boop; Noumenon; joanie-f; Dukie; Squantos; JohnHuang2; DollyCali; RobFromGa; k.trujillo; ...

Betty, thank you for your always eloquent, honestly and strongly felt discourse!

My understanding of the accusations against Cruz are these:

1) That he was actually for legalization of illegal immigrants during the gang of eight 8 because of the amendment he introduced. I contest this accusation because it ws clear at the time (and I was watching closely back then), and it has been made clear since, that that amendment was a tactic by Cruz to force the supporters of the gang of 8 bill to vote up or down on allowing the people they wanted to legalize to not get the vote. He did this to expose their agenda, and he spoke patiently for his amendment to set the hook. And he succeeded. The supporters of the gang of 8 bill, mainly democrats, but also including Rubio came out against the Cruz amendment, and it was voted down and thus the amendment did not pass, and thus they showed that their real issue was ultimately getting those people the vote. I believe Rubio knows this full well and that it is he, not Cruz, that is not being honest about it.

2) That during the Iowa caucus, the Cruz campaign falsely announced that Dr. Carson was going home and did not intend to go to NH. But it is my understanding as well that this was reported by CNN on that day as a result of talks with the Carson campaign, and that the Cruz campaign reported what CNN had said and drove it home. It is also my understanding that the Rubio campaign did exactly the same thing. The issue became a big news item when Trump, pointing to his own defeat, and looking for excuses for it, indicated that if Carson had gotten the votes that Cruz “stole”, then Cruz may not have won. Then, of course, Rubio piled on to this notion. I lay the fault of this at Carson’s feet, as much as I like him, because nothing about him going home should ever have been announced on that day. I do not blame the Cruz campaign for passing on news that CNN reported. If members of his staff knowingly embellished it, he should reprimand them...and depending on the seriousness...fire them. But it is hard to blame people on the ground, in the heat of battle, when seeing a report from CNN that casts a bad light on their opposition, for passing such information on.

3) My own complaint against Cruz is neither of those tow, but rather his mailer that went out that looked like something from the government, claiming that voters had gotten an “F” in the past for not voting and indicating that they needed to vote in the caucus for Cruz. Did Ted Cruz himself come up with that foolish idea? I seriously doubt it. ut once it went out he should have denounced it.

As I see it, primaries are a hard fought competition at a very hgh level of emotion and political thought. Where every side is seeking to gain any advantage over the other. Are their things that candidates do during that part of the election cycle that I do not like? Yes...absolutely.

But sometimes all of us are too harsh on the candidates for what their staff does. Yes, they are in charge, and yes they should respond if they see something that they KNOW is wrong or out of place. We know that Cruz is willing to act when things like this happen because of his demanding the resignation of his spokesman, Rick Tyler, yesterday.

If I look at Trump and Rubio...they have done similar things and more...over and over again. None of the front runners are clean in this. I would say that Carson and Kasich have been much less so...although the both of them have made some big mistakes as well.

At the end of the day, we are trying to defeat an abject and open socialist/marxist in Bernie Sanders, or an abject closet socialist/marxist in Hillary, who has lied to the entire American people about so many critical things that it is mind numbing. Her husband’s sexual crmes and predatory nature, her own initial attempts at socialized medicine, her email debacle where national security was put at horrible risk, the Benghazi travesty where she made up a story about a man and a video, who himself was sent to jail, to cover for treason, gun ruunning, and an attempt to allow enemies to kill every American there that might have reporesented a threat to the truth of what happened there. Save for the unvarnished bravery of a few forrmer Navy SEALS and other Special Forces, they most probably would have succeeded.

These are the people we MUST defeat.

Any one of the current/remaining GOP candidates would be several orders of magnitude better than either of them, and would lead to a turnaround in this country. Some may be stronger in that than others. I believe that the strongest would still be Ted Cruz, and despite detractors, believe he has a record in DC to show it.

Having said that, if Trump became the nominee, I would vote for him every day of the week and twice on Sundays...and in a New York minute. I would vote for Rubio if he were the nominee. I would vote for Carson or Kasich as well. All of them are talented and loyal Americans IMHO, despite whatever other failing they may have.

The future we face right now is dire if we get another 4 or 8 years of Obama’s policies or worse. I must do all I can to stop that from heppening, and that starts with recognizing this political process for what it is...and being willing to accept that during the primaries these candidates are going to fight amongst themselves.

I wish it were not so...but it has become the nature of the beast and to one extent or another, those who get embroiled in this at that level get some of that mud on them. All I can do is look at them, their records, the policies they ay they will enact, and then make my best decision...both during the primaries and then the general.

I respect that each of us must do the same, and do not hold that against them. In fact I am glad so manty peoplea re passionately involved.

...but I implore all, no matter how wounded you feel in the primaries, to not turn your back and walk away from whomever the nominee becomes. That would only serve to help produce an even worse outcome.


35 posted on 02/23/2016 5:55:08 AM PST by Jeff Head (Semper Fidelis - Molon Labe - Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: Jeff Head

Hear, hear!


36 posted on 02/23/2016 6:06:07 AM PST by MileHi (Liberalism is an ideology of parasites, hypocrites, grievance mongers, victims, and control freaks.)
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To: Jeff Head

Well said, Jeff. I think anyone supporting Rubio at this point is delusional, but if he gets the nomination we’ll have to hope he beats the Dem and then ride House members on immigration like we did with Bush all of those years.


37 posted on 02/23/2016 6:10:39 AM PST by dirtboy
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To: Jeff Head

Ditto what you said, Jeff. Well put.


39 posted on 02/23/2016 7:04:23 AM PST by Gritty (Syrians aren't Jews fleeing Nazi Holocaust but Nazis relocating from a bombed out Berlin-DGreenfield)
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To: Jeff Head

I personally try to ignore the Noise Machine. A good thing to do is remember what you knew about each candidate the day before the campaign mudslinging began, and keep that clearly in your mind.

If you are a regular at FR, you are more informed than the average bear about these people, and you knew who they were from the beginning. They have all hired good, and not so good, competent, and not so competent, people to change the subject. It doesn’t really work with me. If you understand how propaganda works, it won’t really work with you either.

Nick Taleb (The Black Swan) has made the point numerous times that the more you listen to the media, the less you know. The less you listen to the media, the more you know. I have found that to be pretty true. I tune them out.


40 posted on 02/23/2016 8:01:09 AM PST by marron
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To: Jeff Head
Having said that, if Trump became the nominee, I would vote for him every day of the week and twice on Sundays...and in a New York minute. I would vote for Rubio if he were the nominee. I would vote for Carson or Kasich as well. All of them are talented and loyal Americans IMHO, despite whatever other failing they may have.

Well said. Every red-blooded American voter should keep his/her eye on the ball. It's amazing how many lose track of these simple principles.

When voting for a President will make a bona fide difference, VOTE!

42 posted on 02/23/2016 12:13:56 PM PST by sargon
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To: Jeff Head; Lazamataz; Alamo-Girl; Windflier; xzins; joanie-f; trisham; marron
If I look at Trump and Rubio...they have done similar things and more...over and over again. None of the front runners are clean in this.

Oh really. Are you suggesting that, just because Joe Blow does some mean and evil thing, that it's okay for me to do that mean and evil thing?

Sounds like a prescription for defining deviancy down to me, and making it more generalized in our society.

Dear Jeff, it looks like you're making a case for moral equivalency here. Surely you don'r mean to do that. For that is precisely what is destroying our society.

45 posted on 02/23/2016 3:27:42 PM PST by betty boop (The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.)
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To: Jeff Head

Best post of the tear. Period.


56 posted on 02/23/2016 4:09:41 PM PST by ImaGraftedBranch (by reading this, you have collapsed my wave function. Thanks, pal.)
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