Posted on 02/10/2016 4:17:12 AM PST by detective
“...You’ve picked the 1790 act as a definition of NBC by the founders, and you find Cruz to be natural born on that basis...”
No, I said it was the only reference to the phrase NBC that I could find in the legislative record and admitted I’m a lay-person. I have no idea if a modern court would qualify -or- disqualify Cruz. It remains to be seen. All I believe is that unless a court of competent authority disqualifies him, Cruz will be on the ballot and if elected, will serve as POTUS. Absent that court decision, I don’t see any impact to status-quo.
“...so your opinion is, by your own admission and standards, worthless...”
Yes! Freely Admitted. And based on your repeated attempts to put words in my mouth, it’s about as worthless as yours. It’s also as worthless as the original poster’s who asserted a definitive answer. I also said if you wanted to argue the only opinion by the founding fathers that I can find in the legislative record, your argument is not with me — it is with them.
I’ll root for the founders, but I have no idea if their opinion on the matter would still win in a modern court.
But keep digging... Surely a keenly honed legal mind such as yours can do better than assigning an argument I never made.
>>My fear is that I don’t trust Trump to follow through.
I don’t expect any of them to follow through. In some cases, it is because they just lied. In others, they lack the ability to make something happen. In a third case, it is because what they want is just feasible. Every elected person does all three to some extent, and then there are the things that they do succeed with.
Trump is running as a Nationalist (which is not the same as it would have been in the mid-late 20th Century), not as a Conservative (which has also changed since 1988). If he succeeds at his nationalist agenda, then President Cruz can succeed at his Conservative agenda. If Trump fails, then the demographic shift will force us into socialism or civil war.
>>Trump will be portrayed in the media as an uber conservative, so there won’t be any coming back from a Trump failure for conservatives.
The media blames Obama’s failures on conservatives already. Who the media blames for failure is a constant.
but the US passport has his claim adjudicated decades ago.
I was under the impression that there was a question as to whether or not a US Passport exists.A much earlier post intimated that his passport was sealed along with his other documents...any truth to that?
I take it as an article of faith that he has a US passport, and probably has a CRBA or equivalent. He hasn't shown them, but there is more than one story that has him doing border crossings.
As for "sealing," that is the normal condition for personal ID / vital statistics documents, until one is dead, or 100 years after birth, whichever comes first. You can get your own vital stats (birth cert, citizenship cert, etc.), but others can't. This is a barrier to identity theft.
I mostly agree with that, but the scenario covers a few variables.
The RNC can "disqualify" him without a court order, based on its own legal opinion. That would be one way the issue might be heard on the merits by a competent court.
And the question of whether or not a court takes it up, otherwise, is separate from figuring out, in advance, how that court should rule, if it followed the relevant precedents.
Status-quo is that the NBC clause is not followed. It does not exist, except as an academic curiosity.
-- I'll root for the founders --
You are rooting for the founders, as you believe they would rule. There is lots of evidence that your belief is a mistaken one.
-- Surely a keenly honed legal mind such as yours can do better than assigning an argument I never made. --
"I'll root for the founders," in combination with citing the 1790 naturalization act, is an argument you made. It's right there in your own words.
It’s THE most compelling. Are you saying the people want a candidate that the establishment LOVES?
Last night proved that notion wrong.
Totally different beast. If Trump is what I fear, then he will be a millstone about the neck for conservatives. At the very least, conservatives need to make it 100% clear that Trump is not our guy. Yea we can work with him on common interests, but that is it.
Good stuff..thanks.
Of course I’m not saying that.
Sheesh.
“...”I’ll root for the founders,” in combination with citing the 1790 naturalization act, is an argument you made. It’s right there in your own words...”
Nope. “Rooting for” does not equal “They Hold The Definitive Answer”. They may or may not hold the definitive answer - either way, that’s not for me to decide. I just generally consider them a safe bet. I would probably root for the founders on most any modern issue. I stress *most*, not *all*. And If their opinion were to lose the argument, I would accept that decision.
So again, you can keep assigning arguments I did not make if it suits you. I’ll continue correcting you. Your argument is with the founders, not with me.
I'll play the same game you are playing. Show me where I made any argument. At least we both agree that you don't have a clue about how to resolve the issue.
The first point I made, that your standard for being qualified to have an opinion can be used against you, and shows that you are not qualified. On that point, we agree. I guess the only thing that changed is that now you say you don't have an opinion on the underlying issue, vs. me taking you at your word that you thought the founders would find Cruz to be an NBC.
I don't have an argument with the founders. They would find Cruz to be an alien, naturalized into citizenship if Congress saw fit.
If true, God help us...he/ll milk that for all he/s worth.
Knowing how his calculating mind works, he/ll figure victimhood is a sure way to get votes.
“...I don’t have an argument with the founders. They would find Cruz to be an alien, naturalized into citizenship if Congress saw fit...”
Ah! Another Free Republic “Constitutional Scholar” with an opinion stated as fact! And we’re back full circle to my original point.
The diference between us is that unlike your unqualified opinion, which refers only to the 1790 act, my opinion refers to SCOTUS case law that reads the 1790 act, and applies it to a fact pattern the same as Cruz’s.
>>Totally different beast. If Trump is what I fear, then he will be a millstone about the neck for conservatives. At the very least, conservatives need to make it 100% clear that Trump is not our guy. Yea we can work with him on common interests, but that is it.
The interesting thing is that I can say the same about Cruz. If he is the weak leader that he has been unable to disprove in the last six months, with a Republican Congress and he gets nothing done—or only gets Establishment work done because that’s all Congress will send him—then he will also be a millstone. But, he will be the millstone that we claimed was our PERFECT candidate, so the media can say that “no one satisfies the Conservatives. Stop trying to make them happy.”
You know, I really wish I could have a rational discussion with other Trump backers.
I think you’ve got a clear view, and in fact you and I are seeing the same things and making slightly different calls after analyzing things.
It is looking like Trump will be the candidate, and I’ve never wanted to be wrong about someone, so badly in my life.
>>It is looking like Trump will be the candidate, and I’ve never wanted to be wrong about someone, so badly in my life.
I hope that you are too. Not because I want you to be wrong, but because we need him to be the kind of President that he has been on the campaign trail and in business. If he gets in there and doesn’t take the bull by the horns, the Establishment will sell us into slavery. I hope he crushes them and creates a new sense of Americanism that empowers people to stop chanting the mindless “USA USA” and to start answering specifics of why our way is better than EVERYONE else’s and to have the courage to say that it is stupid to do it their way just because that’s how they did it back in their third world slum nation! Then, I hope that Vice-President Cruz replaces him at the end of the term and nails down REAL conservative reform.
But, first we have to slay the monster before we can start rebuilding the village. It takes a warrior to kill monsters and a builder to construct the village.
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