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To: Ancesthntr; fishtank; metmom
I am Jewish and I believe in the account of the Creation in Genesis (though I also understand that some of it is allegory that cannot make much sense from a sheer textual analysis, or at least certainly not in any language other than Hebrew).

In your view at what point in Genesis does the "allegory" of which you speak end and recorded history begin?

What is the rationale for your position?

FReegards!

 photo million-vet-march.jpg

13 posted on 01/19/2016 9:00:25 AM PST by Agamemnon (Darwinism is the glue that holds liberalism together)
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To: Agamemnon

Allegory is, to me and in this context, the gross over-simplification of extremely complex subjects - with the goal of giving an adequate explanation of events that was/is comprehensible to the average person, and doing so in a line or a few words, rather than in multiple volume. The purpose is to explain how things are, in a simple way, as a necessary precursor to the vast amount of moral teachings that are contained in the Bible, not to be a scientific explanation about how the universe was created.

So, for example, Schroeder points out that there is a phrase in the Talmud (which is the Oral Torah that G-d gave Moses on Mt. Sinai in addition to the 10 Commandments, and augmented by multiple centuries of interpretations by the most gifted and learned rabbis of the era) that refers to “the breath of G-d.” This is something that occurs immediately after the “Let there be light” moment, and is intended to show that G-d breathed life (of a sort) into the universe that He had just created. That is an allegory. Schroeder speculates (and I recognize that it is one fallible, though highly educated, man’s speculation) that this refers to a moment that was 1/(1/10 to the 43rd power) seconds after the Big Bang, when the universe was about the size of a golf ball (at least according to modern theory). The “breath of G-d” changed the size to that of a grapefruit INSTANTLY. Had that (as yet unexplained by modern science) expansion not occurred, the universe would have collapsed on itself almost instantaneously. The “breath of G-d” brought the universe to a state where it could continue to expand, develop stars, planets, etc. - all as outlined in Genesis.

Now go and try to explain that concept to a bunch of wandering shepherds 3,300 years ago - heck, I can repeat it, but I’ll be damned if I can truly understand it myself, despite having 3,300 years of human technical/scientific progress to build on, and a deep interest in most areas of science. THAT is what I mean by allegory - it STILL applies in this instance, except to maybe a few hundred physicists.

Regarding the rest of Genesis, undoubtedly most of it represents ACTUAL history - though you should understand that most Jewish biblical scholars understand (and have for many thousands of years) that the 5 Books of Moses are NOT in the exactly correct chronological order - it bounces around a bit, because teaching history is not the Bible’s function, teaching morality IS.


19 posted on 01/19/2016 9:32:36 AM PST by Ancesthntr ("The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." A. E. van Vogt)
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