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To: Red Steel

Look at the 14th amendment and what it states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

stating it another way adds clarity:

all persons born in the United states, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States

AND

all persons naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States.

The 14th amendment makes note of two classes of citizens here: citizens born of the soil and citizens created by an act of naturalization or citizens of other than the soil and it says that they are both citizens of the United States But, importantly, nowhere does its language specifically act upon article II, section I, clause 5 by making mention of a Natural Born Citizen which it surely must do if it intends to affect Article II, section I, clause 5.

In fact, the 14th amendment has validated the opinion that a citizen not born of the soil, is not a Natural Born Citizen by specifically calling such a person a citizen as opposed to a Natural Born Citizen, for our founders and the authors of the 14th amendment perfectly understood the meaning of the language they used and we can assume that no words adopted into the constitution were either used or omitted without intent or perfect understanding.

By omitting the words Natural Born Citizen, the meaning of which the authors were perfectly familiar with they have acknowledged that a citizen not born in the United states is not a Natural Born Citizen, eligible to serve as POTUS.

It will no doubt be mentioned that it also calls a Citizen by right of Soil a Citizen. But there is no discrepancy here as a Natural Born Citizen clearly is, by default, a citizen. A citizen, on the other hand, is not by default, a Natural Born Citizen.

It is also worth making note of the words subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

From United States v. Wong Kim Ark, we know what this means. It refers to full and unencumbered allegiance to the sovereign i.e. the United States. In this way, the children of foreign ambassadors who, through, happenstance, are born on US soil while their parents are acting in an official capacity of a foreign sovereignty, are not held to be citizens of the United states at the time of their birth upon US soil.

So, in summary, article 2, section 1, clause 5 specifically denies the right to be POTUS to any but a Natural Born Citizen and the 14th amendment does not act to amend that.

We are, again, left to the historical records and common law understandings to ascertain what Article II, section I, clause 5 was referring to.

I have already shown that natural born citizenship is derived from the common law understanding and language and that it specifically refers to persons physically born in the country and that the Katyal and Clement paper that Ted Cruz bases his own opinion on misrepresents the common law understanding by using a few ancient and limited statutory references as being indicative of the common law understanding in its entirety.

There is ample evidence throughout United States v. Wong Kim Ark to confirm this and I have stated much of it already. So let us go back further, closer to the time of the adoption of the constitution, closer to a time when common law understandings were better understood by all Americans.

we see clear evidence of this Jus soli basis of natural born citizenship in Justice Curtis’s dissenting opinion in the infamous 1857 Dred Scott decision whereby he states:

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, “a natural-born citizen.” It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.

Again, as in United States v. Wong Kim Ark we see the clear truth of the matter. Our founders perfectly understood the meaning of the language they used and had a perfect and specific understanding of what it meant to be a Natural Born Citizen: it was a person born in the country and they, for good reason, intended that none but such a person would be eligible for the office of President and they incorporated that intent into the constitution. No Act of congress can change this. No judicial hearing can change this. No statement by Ted Cruz or his supporters can change this. Only a constitutional amendment can change this.


3 posted on 01/18/2016 3:16:29 AM PST by RC one ("...all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens" US v. WKA)
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To: RC one
You make the case more complex than it is.

If Cruz is a citizen under the 14th amendment, he is either born in the US or naturalized. Which is it?

6 posted on 01/18/2016 3:28:32 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: RC one
The more I try to follow this (I'm not a lawyer) the more it seems that there's a lot about this question that has to be answered. What's appalling is that a definition of Natural Born Citizen wasn't demanded when Obama ran for President. I wonder if a decision that validated Obama would've validated Cruz.

What I'm impressed with is Mike Huckabee. A lot of people complain about him, but they complain about everybody but Cruz. Huckabee as Press Secreatary or even VP? He sure is an articulate and convincing spokesman for Constitutional Conservative issues.

7 posted on 01/18/2016 3:28:52 AM PST by grania
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To: RC one; All
 photo BrokenRecord.jpg
21 posted on 01/18/2016 3:51:41 AM PST by Cobra64 (Common sense isn't common anymore)
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To: RC one
The main thrust of the Amendment seems to be ignored...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof

Who is subject to the jurisdiction thereof??? If you sneak across the border from Mexico are you subject to the jurisdiction of the US or Mexico...Many scholars would say Mexico...

This seems to be the actual law that everyone wants to ignore:

54 posted on 01/18/2016 5:01:35 AM PST by Iscool (Izlam and radical Izlam are different the same way a wolf and a wolf in sheeps clothing are differen)
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To: RC one
The 14th amendment makes note of two classes of citizens here: citizens born of the soil and citizens created by an act of naturalization or citizens of other than the soil and it says that they are both citizens of the United States But, importantly, nowhere does its language specifically act upon article II, section I, clause 5 by making mention of a Natural Born Citizen which it surely must do if it intends to affect Article II, section I, clause 5.

From Rogers v. Bellei 401 U.S. 815 (1971)

"...Afroyim's broad interpretation of the scope of the Citizenship Clause finds ample support in the language and history of the Fourteenth Amendment. Bellei was not "born . . . in the United States," but he was, constitutionally speaking, "naturalized in the United States." Although those Americans who acquire their citizenship under statutes conferring citizenship on the foreign-born children of citizens are not popularly thought of as naturalized citizens, the use of the word "naturalize" in this way has a considerable constitutional history. Congress is empowered by the Constitution to "establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," Art. I, § 8. Anyone acquiring citizenship solely under the exercise of this power is, constitutionally speaking, a naturalized citizen

Also:

The Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution . . . contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two only: birth and naturalization. Citizenship by naturalization can only be acquired by naturalization under the authority and in the forms of law. But citizenship by birth is established by the mere fact of birth under the circumstances defined in the Constitution. Every person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization. A person born out of the jurisdiction of the United States can only become a citizen by being naturalized, either by treaty, as in the case of the annexation of foreign territory; or by authority of Congress, exercised either by declaring certain classes of persons to be citizens, as in the enactments conferring citizenship upon foreign-born children of citizens, or by enabling foreigners individually to become citizens by proceedings in the judicial tribunals, as in the ordinary provisions of the naturalization acts."

62 posted on 01/18/2016 5:14:48 AM PST by TheCipher (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. Mark Twain)
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To: RC one
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

I don't see the words Natural Born Citizens strung together anywhere in title 8. I see the words "citizens at birth" and a whole lot of Cruz supporters suggesting that that means the same thing as a Natural Born Citizen despite the fact that that has never been decided and loads of supreme court justice opinions have suggested that that is not at all the case. and then there's the fact that article II, section I, clause 5 doesn't say you have to be a citizen at birth, it says you have to be a Natural Born Citizen. And to put a finer point on it, article II, section I, clause 5 actually does distinguish between a citizen at birth and a natural born citizen.

82 posted on 01/19/2016 11:15:53 AM PST by RC one ("...all persons born in the allegiance of the United States are natural-born citizens" US v. WKA)
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