Obama EO Changes NOTHING? CURRENT ATF Rules on Private Sales vs. FFL Sales

ATF ^ | By Laz A. Mataz

[Lazamataz]

Ok, now I'm confused.

I do not think the ATF would have Obama's Executive Order implemented BEFORE the EO is even issued, right?

Well, here's the ATF Brochure on when you need an FFL, and the text largely mimics his E0 -- at least the preview, anyways.

DO I NEED A LICENSE TO BUY AND SELL FIREARMS? Guidance to help you understand when a Federal Firearms License is required under federal law

Here is this brochure's copy. I'm not certain if the brochure is new, but I suspect it has been there for a while:

Here is OTrauma's EO copy:

A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.

Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.

There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.

[Lazamataz]

Here is a much older ATF Guidance, and while it does not have the exact same copy, it has the 'low numbers don't matter' verbiage.

Note that there is no particular minimum number of firearms that must be sold, manufactured, or imported specified by law to be “engaged in the business.” Whether a person has been engaged in the business of dealing, manufacturing, or importing firearms, is made on a case-by-case basis. Considerations include, but are not limited to: the quantity of firearms sold, manufactured, or imported; the frequency of transactions over a period of time; the intent of the person in acquiring and disposing of firearms; and any representations made to the buyer regarding the person’s ability and willingness to obtain or transfer firearms. We recommend that you contact your local ATF office (http://www.atf.gov/field/index.html) to

[Aleya2Fairlie]

Me either. I was already mad. The tears were the last straw. I’m still mad. I’ve donated lots of time and money over the years(for my circumstances)to the NRA and to faux Conservative Republicans so I can watch some Muslim imposter, who lets any wannabe terrorist that cares to stroll across our borders do so, who champions the right of murder for hire Planned Parenthood doctors to kill babies, who ties the hands of our Military in combat and makes them fodder for the enemy, tell ME that he knows better than I do how to protect myself from the hell hole orcs that his justice department defends against law abiding citizens! I want to see the day I can watch that America and American hating wimp cry for real!

[Yaelle]

As a mental health professional I was SCREAMING at the radio at that part. Surely if you want to keep your guns you know now that mental help for your addiction, for your depression at losing your loved one, even marriage counseling, is out of the question. Even if they are all covered by ObamaCare. He actually said that background checks will search your Federal Medical Database. What about illnesses? People with cancer as often told to see a cancer-specialist psychologist for group or private counseling. What about PTSD for first responders, soldiers? Infertility counseling? WILL ALL MENTAL HEALTH RELATED APPOINTMENTS DISQUALIFY YOU FROM OWNING GUNS, OR RISK LOSING YOUR GUNS?

Do-gooder laws hurt the lawful. No laws hurt the criminal.

[Lazamataz]

So as far as I can tell, numbers have never mattered, and there is only one additional guidance in this EO, that internet or gunshows are also places where existing rules apply.

Still looks like a Jedi Mind Trick to me.

[luvie]

Not so. Cruz has been against gun control his whole career and will continue to fight for our rights. AND he is a PROVEN Christian Conservative!

[thackney]

Your information may be specific to a state law, but most states have no gun registrations and we have no national gun registration.

People routinely walk into a gun show or store and sell their firearm at that visit, to FFL dealers and private citizens.

[gwgn02]

THey aren’t even EO’s they are executive actions...they carry no legal weight.

Obama is a fool.

[rktman]

Stuck waiting for labs and xray and it was on. All i could do to not turn off the tv. What a load of crap.

[Steamburg]

Pay attention. He is giving the Lois Lerner, go ahead to political prosecutions using the SSA, BATFE, FBI and big medicine. Every point here has been rejected by congress. Yes this has meaning.

[knarf]

THIS one here, Laz ....imo ... is the troublesome phrase

As we all know .. interpretation is key in levelling charges

"There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement."

[Yaelle]

But our President can't pass a background check! eVerify immediately flags his Social Security number as fraudulent!

[so_real]

Well it *does* do something ... Had it not been for Obama's speech I would not be looking for a new firearm today :-)

[luvie]

Wonder how this covers guns stolen in order to commit a crime. Hmmm?

fffffft! obama is a pansy, a creep, a dummox, a...a...you name it!

[driftdiver]

Part of what he’s doing is social engineering. Getting people accustomed to an executive issuing decrees.

[KeyLargo]

Obama gun control executive order compromises doctor-patient confidentiality for mental health
Poor Richards News ^ | Jan 5, 2016 | Poor Richard

Posted on 1/5/2016, 11:40:34 AM by KeyLargo

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3379923/posts

[Lazamataz]

"There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement."

It's been that way forever. See this old FFL Guidance: Note that there is no particular minimum number of firearms that must be sold, manufactured, or imported specified by law to be “engaged in the business.” Whether a person has been engaged in the business of dealing, manufacturing, or importing firearms, is made on a case-by-case basis. Considerations include, but are not limited to: the quantity of firearms sold, manufactured, or imported; the frequency of transactions over a period of time; the intent of the person in acquiring and disposing of firearms; and any representations made to the buyer regarding the person’s ability and willingness to obtain or transfer firearms. We recommend that you contact your local ATF office (http://www.atf.gov/field/index.html) to ">

[Lazamataz]

Part of what he's doing is social engineering. Getting people accustomed to an executive issuing decrees.

THAT I can DEFINITELY agree with.

[Yaelle]

If obuma is doing this to ‘get guns out of our hands’ then it’s going to start going thru the ‘black market’ the way of the prohibition did on achohol in the last era....

---

This is the point that this idiot speech never mentioned. If you don’t know history you are doomed to repeat it. There are laws even today prohibiting the sale of cocaine, heroin, and in some states marijuana. You can buy those drugs in all 50 states, fairly easily.

What about his own Fast and Furious??

[HarleyLady27]

Well that's the part obuma is leaving out...all part of the plan for martial law coming, and I really believe he will push to do it...

He wants this Country in a ‘revolution’ to start something, this has been his plan since he stepped foot in the White House, and he hasn't gotten very far with it, so he's going full bore to get it done...

There's problems with this type of thinking....the American people have had it with his kind, the ‘spineless sissies’ in the House and the Senate, clear down to the guy that tosses the shredded papers in the incinerator and if push comes to shovel, the people of America will yank his butt right out of the White House and don't be surprised if the Military are not there to help when that time comes, they don't like him either!!!

[luvie]

I’m not telling anyone my problems should I have any, which I don’t. I advise any sane gun owner to keep his/her own council and if you are lucky enough to have unregistered guns, keep that to yourself, too!

Your doctors, etc, don’t need to know everything, especially if they will kiss and tell.