Posted on 01/05/2016 9:15:51 AM PST by Lazamataz
Ok, now I'm confused.
I do not think the ATF would have Obama's Executive Order implemented BEFORE the EO is even issued, right?
Well, here's the ATF Brochure on when you need an FFL, and the text largely mimics his E0 -- at least the preview, anyways.
DO I NEED A LICENSE TO BUY AND SELL FIREARMS? Guidance to help you understand when a Federal Firearms License is required under federal law
Here is this brochure's copy. I'm not certain if the brochure is new, but I suspect it has been there for a while:
Here is OTrauma's EO copy:
A person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms regardless of the location in which firearm transactions are conducted. For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet. Those engaged in the business of dealing in firearms who utilize the Internet or other technologies must obtain a license, just as a dealer whose business is run out of a traditional brick-and-mortar store.
Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.†For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.
There are criminal penalties for failing to comply with these requirements. A person who willfully engages in the business of dealing in firearms without the required license is subject to criminal prosecution and can be sentenced up to five years in prison and fined up to $250,000. Dealers are also subject to penalties for failing to conduct background checks before completing a sale.
O’s usual do something, but really do nothing to create the impression that he is in charge while daring someone to challenge him.
Of course The GOPe will cower. Trump is the only person who would state what you have written.
Hmmmm. According to the last page of the brochure, it is dated January 2016. There must be a previous version of the brochure--I would think "Do I need a license to sell firearms?" is a common question received by ATF--but I can't find it. Curious to see whether previous guidance contained similar language.
Yup. That seems to be one of the big changes. How many millions of citizens are on some sort of meds.?
“a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
“Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.†For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.”
Keep in mind this is a Fact Sheet, priming us for the EO. And in the second line from the bottom of the paragraph is the ‘one or two’ language. These means we should expect the EO to change to definition of ‘being in the business of dealing in firearms’ to include one sale.
I’m safe, the “making a profit” part of gun selling is something I’ve never mastered.
My understanding, my late boy friend was an FFL dealer, we went to gun shows all the time, and a person can bring a gun from his private collection to sell to an FFL dealer, but he has to have the certification that the gun is registered to him, plus before we would buy it, we ran the gun serial number, his driver’s license and the certification number thru the NCIC to make sure it all worked out...this would take up to sometimes two weeks to get all the approval...
Most FFL dealers protect themselves by doing this, you can’t just walk into a gun show and sell your weapon...if your honoring your license that is...
If obuma is doing this to ‘get guns out of our hands’ then it’s going to start going thru the ‘black market’ the way of the prohibition did on achohol in the last era....
Possible scenario:
King Barry, all huffed-up and full of himself, and lamenting the fact that this is one part of his agenda he had been unable to implement, announces that he is going to control guns by Executive Order.
He orders his staff to find a legally defensible way to do this.
They work on the problem for months and come to the conclusion that there IS no such way.
However, Barry cannot possibly climb down from the perch of his bold proclamations, so he tries to run a little shuck-and-jive which might at least create the appearance that he has done as he decreed.
He thinks WE’RE stupid...and we KNOW that HE is!
Dangerously so!
*BOOP*
You are probably correct that it is NOT in the documents officially.
It is NOT uncommon for ATF to “interpret the intent” and re-write the document.
For instance, ATF considers a stock which can be attached to a short barreled rifle to be NFA controlled device.
Just the possession of it can get you a visit from the Gestapo.
It is NOT in any law but ATF considers the “intent” and thus rules it is illegal.
I was looking for a thread on his speech and this was the closest I could find. I was driving during it (in the rain! Real water falling from the skies, yay!), alone, yelling at my radio.
Only ONE THING he mentioned might have stopped Sandy Hook. Only one small thing, which WOULD be a great improvement technologically. The idea that one would need a certain fingerprint (or several) to unlock a gun.
For new purchases, that would be excellent. I have a lot of kids. I’d like only the adults to be able to use a gun. It would also reduce crimes like perps taking an officer’s gun, maybe even help on the battlefield, help Granny use her gun for self defense but a stronger attacker wouldn’t be able to hurt her with it (at least from firing it).
This tech would have helped against Sandy Hook if the killer’s mom only had those types of guns. She knew her son was messed up. She might have sold off all older guns and bought the safer biometrics guns.
It would not have helped if she kept her older guns. Many people have older guns they cherish, and even antiques. And everything can be stolen or “borrowed” as that killer did from his mom.
Otherwise, there is nothing in Obama’s long whiny antiConstitutional rant and EOs that would have dropped ANY of these crimes.
In a free country there will always be bad guys. There will always be violent crimes. We must use common sense to prevent them (making schools safer, more armed guards in public, whatever) and we must have the stiffest of punishments for the shooters and anyone who helped them or sold them the weapons. But in freedom there will always be evildoers.
Good catch, I could not find a date. I may end up asking for this thread to be pulled.
“Yup. That seems to be one of the big changes. How many millions of citizens are on some sort of meds.?”
Also, in the E.O. If a firearm owner lives with a person that is on meds that fact has to be reported to the Government.
Like someone posted, earlier....
The NRA should give 0bie the Salesman of the Year award.
I think he’s throwing a bunch of s*** on the wall just to see what he can make stick. He has every intention of making as much of it stick as possible.
I hate obama
Tears of a Kenyan clown. Obama is such a bishh.
Obama has to sign it before we find out what’s in it...
Exactly right.
It is a classic democrat tactic to put on a public Dog and Pony show claiming a bill or law or EO does or states one thing when in fact the actual content is something quite different.
Sort of a libtard "Bait and Switch.
The same way that liberal newspapers print incorrect statements in headlines 2" tall then do the retraction in minuscule type buried on the back page hidden in the pet obituaries.
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