Posted on 12/18/2015 12:48:28 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
The Israel Navy’s fifth Dolphin- class submarine and second new-generation AIP (air independent propulsion) platform is making the 3,000- mile journey to its home base at the Haifa naval base from its German manufacturing center, a senior naval source said Thursday.
The INS Rahav is carrying some 50 personnel, and “minimal weapons needed to protect itself,†before its arrival in Israel next month.
After its arrival, Israeli systems will be installed on board.
“We expect the submarine to be fully operational in a number of months,†the naval officer said.
AIP submarines can remain submerged for significantly longer periods of time than conventional platforms, and having two such submarines means that Israel has “doubled its covert capabilities,†the source said.
The submarine will stop at the site of where the INS Dakar sunk to the ocean floor in 1968 for a memorial ceremony, before continuing in its journey to Haifa.
The INS Rahav, like the INS Tanin, can use AIP fuel cells to supplement its diesel-electric engines, and does not have to surface often to recharge its batteries.
The new submarines will be based out of a specialized dock built by the navy at Haifa, which allows for the advanced submarines to be kept separately, covertly, and in a convenient manner. The dock allows for flexibility, and enables the submarines to be on call 24 hours a day.
The new submarines will bring with them many unique capabilities, such as lengthy intelligence gathering.
“Submarines bring a level of intelligence to Israel that cannot be achieved by other units,†Lt.-Cmdr. Y., a past commander of the navy’s submarine school, told The Jerusalem Post in 2014.
“Drones that fly in the air can be shot down,†he said, “but a submarine can stay in enemy territory for weeks, and no one knows it’s there.
It can lurk off coastal regions without any problem at all.
The level of intelligence this brings is not heard about by the public. All of our operations build on past operations.â€
I don’t know much about military matters, but I get the impression that Israel is ramping up their military hardware in case they have to go it alone, can you tell me anything about that?
I have no specific knowledge, but I do know that submarines are very long lead items. This purchase was started many years ago.
A little internet searching shows that this is the second Israeli sub capable of carrying nuclear cruise missiles, and that a third one is due in 2017.
I don't know if it represents a willingness to "go it alone", of it it just adds another safeguard against an Iranian attack. Certainly the prospect of nuclear retaliation might give any enemy pause, even if they think they can nearly kill the entire country in a first strike. Counting on a threat of retaliation by the US is a foolish plan.
Thank you, I actually understood that.
Prayers up for Israel!
I understood it too, lol. Thanks for bringing us all up to speed.
Putting cruise missiles with nuclear delivery capability on these subs solves a major problem for isrealies. Currently, they have no long range bombers and few if any refuelers capabile of supporting long range missions. So, an air attack on Iran nuclear facilities, preemptive or responsive, would be one way missions. So, these subs are a smart solution for sure.
“I don’t know much about military matters, but I get the impression that Israel is ramping up their military hardware in case they have to go it alone, can you tell me anything about that?”
Israel is, reasonably, I think, in a constant war mindset. They are the world’s largest producer and user of drones. Several drones in the US inventory are purchased from Israel. At the end of GWB’s presidency they dispatched two submarines through the Suez Canal so they could patrol in the Persian Gulf. It is likely those subs can launch nuclear cruise missiles.
It is unlikely that Israel will bomb the Iranian nuclear program or attack Iran while Russia and Iran are allies in Syria, though Russia has not stopped them from attacking its other ally, Hezbollah. It has been reported that Obama has threatened Israel that he will order the downing of bombers that attack Iran. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that this is true. So, they won’t be going it alone while Obama is in office even if the entire attack could be carried out unmanned, as he could still strike at and destroy Israel in other ways, not all of which are military. (Israeli governments are inherently fragile for several reasons; structural, and there are many insane liberal Israelis who regularly vote for Israel’s suicide.)
So, yes they’re gearing to go it alone, but most likely they won’t do that while Obama is in office.
Thanks for the further info. I pray that our next President will repair the great harm which has been done to our relationship with Israel, but I wouldn’t blame them if they never trust the US again, when an Obama can happen (not that I think they were ever so naive as to put their faith in us that much anyway).
They really don’t trust anyone. The Jonathan Pollard mess is an example.
Just refreshed my memory on that incident. No, they were never so trusting of us, as I thought ( that sounds really stupid, of course nations don’t trust each other).
Thanks Germany!!!! 10 years ago I heard that these German-Israeli subs could only carry three nuclear tipped cruise missiles due to radiation given off in such cramped quarters.
Hopefully this number is double or triple these days
Israel is installing its own electronics. This is a lock! Because Israel can do this better plus security (back door) concerns
GB - great points. Thanks.
Based on your analysis, when Trump places his hand on the Bible to take the Oath of Office as the 45th President, Israel will launch a strike on Iran. Think of it as a going away gift for Obama.
“...when an Obama can happen...”
They used to share the provenance of their intelligence with the CIA. Provenance means how good it is. Then, at a dinner party in DC, with the world listening, President Carter felt he was being criticized on something he’d done, so he told the questioner something like, “well, we know for Muammar Gaddafi’s, brother in law that (such and such.)” The brother in law was arrested within hours and died hours later from torture. To my knowledge Israel has not shared provenance since because even if they shared it during the regime of somebody they trust that information would be available to the next Carter or Clinton or Obama.
Over the past year Merkel has treated Israel poorly. She hasn’t stopped BDS, continues to side with Pallie Fakestinians, funding them. Israelis worried about the few Jews left in Germany because of all the Muzzies Germany took in. But the German’s themselves are now angry at Madam PM for all the terrorists she has taken into Germany.
I think Israel should diversify its sourcing of subs to include ones made by Japan, and other ships made in Israeli friendly India.
The Europeans next to the Arabs hate Jews more than the rest of the world combinned.
Exactly. I’m actually surprised to learn that they ever did that much. I always think of Mossad as being extremely canny, crafty, keeping their knowledge close to their chest, etc-much more secure than our own CIA).
I’m afraid I’m looking quite idiotic, but that world is unreal to someone like me.
“...much more secure than our own CIA)...”
We really can’t know how successful the CIA is and that’s as it should be. However, the unfortunate fact is that organizations can’t be more competent than their management. Organizational psychology says that if the top guy is insane than the organization will behave insanely all the way down to the janitor. Further, this effect lasts a long time as the top guy promotes incompetent or insane underlings and they do likewise under them. The competent and sane find some other line of work. So one bad leader will reflect down the timeline for decades, or in the case of the FBI and Hoover, almost a century. Bad leadership focusses entirely on keeping itself in power. The original mission is lost.
On the good side, the pendulum swings. When things get bad enough the bad gets thrown out wholesale. Then the cycle starts over. I’m hoping we are in the counter-swing now. If not, batten down the hatches. It’s going to be a rough ride.
Who sez things will be cozy between Trump and Israel? Didn’t Trump pizz on Netanyahu’s leg two weeks ago, and have to cancel a visit, etc?
I agree with all of that, and the last paragraph hits home. I don’t see how the counter-swing could occur so quickly when we’re not even rid of one, you might say insane leader as far as American security and best interests go, and what is expected from a president on oath to protect the nation and the Constitution, yet.
>>A little internet searching shows that this is the second Israeli sub capable of carrying nuclear cruise missiles, and that a third one is due in 2017.
That makes sense. Like our own SSBNs, they are building a fleet of retaliation weapons that can strike even if the entire homeland is destroyed.
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