Everything’s Deflating And Nobody Seems To Notice

Zero Hedge - Automatic Earth ^ | 10-22-2015 | Tyler Durden - Ilargi Meijer

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sure it does. 2007 US average never dipped below $2.10 and spent more than half the year well over $2.50.

[ForYourChildren]

I find this as my main source for looking at inflation. This basket of goods is based in Indianapolis. I am sure it varies with different cities.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/pricebasket.html

The link has details as to what was used to calculate the prices.

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Our Price Basket - or Cost Of Living 2008 - 2014 Latest Inflation Update December 2014 Interest Rates, Housing, Food, Gas, Stamps, Dollar Exchange Rate, Dow Jones, Movie Ticket, College Tuition and Wages. We created this page to address two specific needs 1. Providing a comparison for earlier years and 2. As a means of watching how prices and wages react and the effects on inflation, prices and wages when the world comes out of the recession . As you can see we have changed the format to make it easier to read. Hope You Like the new style. To gain an idea of true inflation check 2008 prices to current with our Price Basket Graphic -- Steve As you can see from our table the overall basket of goods has increased significantly from 2008 to 2014, Our real world Price basket of goods shows an increase of over 45% from May 2008 to September 2012 far above published inflation figures and I believe reflects how the working class and the middle class have been effected by real world prices and stagnation in wages due to high unemployment, our basket is representative of the goods and services we all use and buy. Obviously different people spend on different amounts and types from our food basket dependent on multiple factors 1. Size of family, 2. Income, but we hope it offers an insight into real world inflation we are all affected by as opposed to government statistics. Our basket of goods shows a slight increase from 2013 to 2014 which could be suprising when you consider the price of Gas has decreased ( the big factor was the increase of Tide Soap Powder ) other factors including rent, taxes ( local and State ) College Tuition, Cost of a Stamp, Movie Ticket or going out for a meal all affect how much disposable income we have available

And even the fed numbers shows household income declining during the same years from $58,000 to $54,000.

[DiogenesLamp]

Yeah, who am I gonna believe, an entire agency that actually collects this sort of data or some dude who thinks tuna represents the entirety of consumer prices?

If you had been buying stuff all this time, you could believe your own eyes.

But seriously, between Believing Obama.gov and some nameless mook off the street, I would go with the nameless mook every single time. Besides that, i'm not the only one saying this stuff. Look around you. A lot of other people believe the same thing.

Are you seriously claiming that consumer prices doubled, during the weakest recovery in history?

I say nearly doubled. It is not quite double in cost. But then again, It may have doubled in cost if the difference in quantity is factored in.

Seriously, do you not remember what things cost before Obama?

Obama can fudge all the numbers he wants, that still doesn't help your claim.

Even Obama.gov shows an upward trend of 25% according to you. You can bet that that is the lowest possible number which their data can be made to fit.

[DiogenesLamp]

Sure it does. 2007 US average never dipped below $2.10 and spent more than half the year well over $2.50.

The operative word here is "average." That means that the prices were higher and lower in differing states.

[DiogenesLamp]

Our real world Price basket of goods shows an increase of over 45% from May 2008 to September 2012

So now it's 45% from this third party source, and still three more years left to reach 2015.

Keep going. It will get there.

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you had been buying stuff all this time, you could believe your own eyes.

I have been. Prices are up, not by 100%.

But seriously, between Believing Obama.gov and some nameless mook off the street, I would go with the nameless mook every single time.

Most mooks are really bad at math.

Seriously, do you not remember what things cost before Obama?

Sure, still doesn't support your 100% claim.

Even Obama.gov shows an upward trend of 25% according to you.

According to the BLS, yes. 25% increase for food and beverages.

[ForYourChildren]

..”and still three more years left to reach 2015.”

Yes, it will be interesting to see what it will be for 2015.

[Toddsterpatriot]

The operative word here is "average." That means that the prices were higher and lower in differing states.

You bet.

Gasoline was $1.65 in 2007, went up to $3.85, and is now back down to $2.35,

According to the link I posted, more than $2.50, nationwide in 2007, about $2.35, nationwide, now.

A net drop, not a 40% increase.

[Toddsterpatriot]

http://bpp.mit.edu/usa/

[DiogenesLamp]

According to the BLS, yes. 25% increase for food and beverages.

The premise of this discussion is that the government is deliberately lying about inflation. Therefore it would seem to me that a good debate practice would be to rely on figures outside of that very same Obama government control... but I guess they do things differently in Chicago, eh?

At this point, there is nothing for it than to go to the Library and get copies of prices as posted in the newspapers in 2007, compare them to prices of 2015, calculate the difference, and post them here.

Sorry. I don't care so very strongly to convince you.

[DiogenesLamp]

A net drop, not a 40% increase.

If you are going to deliberately ignore the massive rise in the cost of gasoline which happened back in 2010 or so, then I can't regard you as someone who is honest enough to debate with. Gas was something like +$4.00 in California back around that time.

The current drop is the result of fracking and Shale Oil production crashing the price of oil.

Gas went up. Stayed up for a long time. Has finally came back down, and now with the price of oil reaching historic lows in terms of inflation adjusted dollars, it has dipped below what it was seven years ago, you are trying to pass this off as proof that the inflation didn't happen?

[Marie Antoinette]

I’m in MO and milk is mostly $4/gallon here, too. I can get it a little cheaper at Aldi, but that’s not in my town.

[ForYourChildren]

Thanks for the link.

I also like to refer to shadowstats.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you are going to deliberately ignore the massive rise in the cost of gasoline which happened back in 2010

Where did I do that? Your post compared 2007 to 2015. I found a source which showed both, and currently gas is lower than in 2007.

you are trying to pass this off as proof that the inflation didn't happen?

You brought up gas and the endpoints, I merely brought some data to the thread. Are you going to use the real data as proof inflation was 100%, or nearly so, from 2007-now?

[ForYourChildren]

I really like shadowstats discussions of the governments misuse of data.

Such as this article on the government modifying the Consumer Price Index inflation index.

http://www.shadowstats.com/article/archived-438-inflation-measurement

“Consumer Price Index Has Been Reconfigured Since Early-1980s So As to Understate Inflation versus Common Experience”

“Real-World Experience and Public Perceptions versus Academic Theories and Political Gimmicks”

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, Shadowstats is good.....if you trust some guy who pulls numbers out of his butt.

He doesn't actually collect data or calculate inflation.

[ForYourChildren]

“Yeah, Shadowstats is good.....if you trust some guy who pulls numbers out of his butt.”

Lol.

[DiogenesLamp]

Where did I do that? Your post compared 2007 to 2015. I found a source which showed both, and currently gas is lower than in 2007.

I guess this math concept called "integration" escapes you.

You are advocating a child's understanding of things. You have to integrate over the whole range. Not just take the beginning and end.

If your data was linear, you could do it that way. As the data in question is decidedly erratic, you cannot.

[DiogenesLamp]

Yeah, Shadowstats is good.....if you trust some guy who pulls numbers out of his butt.

You certainly appear to like this technique well enough when Obama does it. All the Fed.gov numbers are more or less pulled out of Obama's butt.

He doesn't actually collect data or calculate inflation.

Neither does Obama. He just orders the people who do to make him look good or they are fired.... and to expect an audit.

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are advocating a child's understanding of things. You have to integrate over the whole range. Not just take the beginning and end.

Is that how you turn 25% into 100%?

Or a decline into an increase?