[bigdaddy45]

The world is a changin'. Actually paying buyers to take power. Interesting stuff.

[ctdonath2]

A load of electricity dumped into the power grid has to go somewhere, just like water pumped into the water grid has to go somewhere. If there is insufficient demand (people taking stuff out) then it’s possible for the input pressure (however manifest), to damage the grid - at great repair cost. Cheaper sometimes to pay people to take power (water, whatever) out of the system just to ensure the distribution system doesn’t get damaged. Blown transformers are a whole lot more expensive to replace than paying people to use more power for a while.

(Yes, that’s a paraphrase. The exact details are needlessly complicated for the purposes of this thread.)

[ctdonath2]

Don’t worry, as the balance of supply and demand adjusts to compensate for each others’ changes, that power won’t be free for long. Electricity producers will cut back production until the demand is relatively high enough to warrant customers paying for it again.

[Paladin2]

It’s not impossible, it’s caused by (Federal) government subsidies distorting the market..

[rstrahan]

Having lived in Texas, the game is rigged. They hacpve generation stations just setting idle until it gets peak, then they vid the price. So when electricity may normally be bid at, say, $45 Mwh, a single plant can bid $4500 Mwh, and every plant gets paid $4500 Mwh. Happens every peak day. That is why with deregulation Texas electric rates went from the lowest to some of the highest. My son routinely pays $500 a month in the summer and he doesn’t have a big home.

[tallyhoe]

I am skeptical!!!

[ConservativeMind]

We have had that happen a few times on our day-ahead/pseudo real-time pricing electricity service. To keep the service revenue neutral when they overestimated the hourly average, the company has given us -0.01 hours in the middle of the night.

Distribution/transportation still cost, but the actual electricity was below free. We couldn't believe it.

[outofsalt]

The price goes down when demand is low? Shocking!
This is not an ecologic triumph but a very basic economic principle.

[PGR88]

The government won’t like it, but a real advancement would moving to a world where most individuals are able to easily, and cheaply generate their own electricity.

Everyone off the grid, or the grid being completely optional.

[mom of young patriots]

I noticed on a recent trip through west Texas that a number of the turbines were not turning. I had assumed it was for maintenance or repair. Maybe it has to do with supply and demand, though.

[chimera]

Its a result of tax breaks, feed-in tariffs, and subsidies. In a recent New England power auction, wind-power producers were bidding negative prices into the auction because even though they lost money on distributing their power, the subsidies they received still made them a profit. A totally upside down market when the most unreliable and expensive (on their own) get the most favorable treatment from government-mandated subsidies. The subsidies are driving the traditional (and legitimate) producers out of business. When they're gone and the government pulls the plug on the subsidies, we'll be left with expensive and unreliable power generation, basically like a third-world or 19th century society.

[ProtectOurFreedom]

The Impossible Just Happened on Free Republic

This article was posted for the twenty-fourth time, breaking all previous records. The strange thing is you are going to have to pay me to read it.

[VTenigma]

So let’ see if I have this right. At the point of negligible demand, in the middle of the night, when few need it, and wind turbines are spinning like dervishes, they are paying to offload excess production. Is that about it? What a crazy world we live in. Call me when they start paying people to use power on a Wednesday in July on a 100 degree day at 2:00PM.

[meyer]

This is not necessarily a phenomenon related only to wind power. Electric demand at night is, in general, 40-60% of what it is in the daytime, at least in the summer. Winter load curves are different but there are peaks and valleys. If the generation source cannot be regulated to match the customer demand, then “free” power will occur as it is often less costly to give the stuff away than to take a unit off line and restart it when the load picks up the next morning.

This has not been a major issue most of the time as long as the source can be regulated to follow load. Coal generation, hydro generation, natural gas generation - most sources can be regulated. In addition, energy storage systems like pumped hydro storage can serve to “level out” the load curve.

But, when a non-regulatable source like wind or solar enters the market, we see an increased need to regulate other resources to maintain the generation-load match. And if those sources reach their limit of regulating capability, we see the market price reflecting that.

I've skipped over nuclear - most can be regulated, but getting a nuke plant to reduce output almost takes an act of congress. They are a stubborn, cantankerous lot, those nuclear folks.