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Police Bullets Hit Bikers During the Waco Police Shootout
The Atlantic ^
| 09/22/2015
| Conor Friedersdorf
Posted on 09/22/2015 5:04:12 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
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To: thefactor
Because we already know that the local Waco PD was prepositioned around the area along with federal agents who have since melted into the landscape.
That is not in dispute by most folks. The Waco PD spokesman inadvertantly admitted as much early on, before the narrative changed.
Are you pro murder?
21
posted on
09/22/2015 5:47:29 AM PDT
by
T-Bone Texan
(The economic collapse is imminent. Buy staple food and OTC meds now, before prices skyrocket.)
To: E. Pluribus Unum; Alaska Wolf; DCBryan1; Slings and Arrows; Doomonyou; napscoordinator; Shimmer1; ..
That was unexpected...
JBT Ping list
22
posted on
09/22/2015 5:48:43 AM PDT
by
null and void
(FLINT: Free enterprise, Limited government, Individual liberty, National defense, Traditional values)
To: E. Pluribus Unum
Becoming more like a plot line from Sons of Anarchy every day.
23
posted on
09/22/2015 5:48:49 AM PDT
by
catfish1957
(I display the Confederate Battle Flag with pride in honor of my brave ancestors who fought w/ valor)
To: E. Pluribus Unum
The gunfire included rounds fired by police that hit bikers, though it isn't clear whether those rifle shots caused any of the fatalities, BS
To: T-Bone Texan
The fact that police asked the restaurant to not host the event and were refused is not in dispute. The fact that the police were there in order to act as a deterrent to biker gang violence is not in dispute.
Having police there as a deterrent and saying that the cops were there planning to ambush and murder bikers are two different things entirely. And, quite honestly, is a stupid comparison to make.
25
posted on
09/22/2015 5:58:29 AM PDT
by
thefactor
(yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
To: E. Pluribus Unum
prompting the arrest of 177 people, many of them presumably innocent Every single one of the 177 are presumed innocent.
snip from article
Lawyers in the case have seen dashboard video of people fleeing the scene while shots ring out, audio of police threatening to shoot people if they rise from the ground and photos of bodies lying in pools of blood in the restaurant parking lot, AP adds.
I must have missed the part about the lawyers having seen....in the AP story referenced. There WERE at least two different versions that I saw.
I wonder if "lawyers" means prosecutors?
26
posted on
09/22/2015 6:01:52 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: T-Bone Texan
The Waco PD spokesman inadvertantly admitted as much early on, before the narrative changed.Stroman statement that has been scrubbed from Waco PD facebook
As fr as I have seen, Waco PD had not commented in detail about their precise positioning. Stroman DID say they were sitting in their vehicles when the first shots were fired.
27
posted on
09/22/2015 6:15:43 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: E. Pluribus Unum
the Associated Press reports after reviewing 8,800 pages of evidence apparently leaked to the news organization. I was sure I had seen two different versions of the AP report on Friday. Here is a third from usnews
APNewsBreak: Evidence shows Waco police bullets hit bikers in May melee, unclear if any fatal
Which includes this detail that was not in the other two versions I saw on Friday....
Authorities did not know exactly what to do with the large number of weapons and "just started laying them on the ground away from the suspects," officer Joshua Fischer wrote in a report.
This tends to confirm what The Aging Rebel reported from an eyewitness; that weapons were being piled up on the ground. Is all of that evidence tainted?
28
posted on
09/22/2015 6:44:30 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: All
another snip from same link
Police and prosecutors have said that there is video footage that shows Bandidos and Cossacks shooting at one another. The AP has reviewed video from Twin Peaks and an adjacent restaurant, but neither shows clearly who is shooting at whom.
No wonder Reyna needed that gag order.
Now again arises the question of the source of the leak. The OP mentions "lawyers." Broden said in court on Friday that he did not leak it. But, that does not preclude the possibility that, if it was leaked TO defense lawyers, then one of them leaked it to the AP. But who was the original leaker?
29
posted on
09/22/2015 7:01:48 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: Suz in AZ
What would happen if one of them talked anyway and forced the judge to jail them?
What would happen if the local BATFE SAC was subjected to domestic rendition and enhanced interrogation by a cell of grimly serious patriots? What unusual intelligence might be produced regarding the facts of the situation?
We're not there yet, you say, for such tactics to emerge in our current low intensity conflict?
Why, you're quite right. We aren't.
Not yet, at least. But I dare say that all's fair in love and war, and what one Administration justifies in the name of war, patriots may find justified in the name of love.
You can't stop people from being people, after all. When things get hot enough, they get hot enough.
Just my $.02.
To: Cboldt; ladyjane
Nobody has been charged yet. They stand accused, most incarcerated for about a month, most currently subject to bail conditions and out whatever it cost in out of pocket plus incidental losses (like lost job), and most will not be charged.
Cboldt is correct. This is something called "punishment by process".
The presumption of innocence that attaches to trial proceedings isn't any help at all, doesn't even come into play until a person is indicted or otherwise charged with committing a crime.
"You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride." It is a disingenuous way of meting out summary and extrajudicial punishment without the involvement of judicial oversight.
"Shot trying to escape" is another way it's put...
To: thefactor
Having police there as a deterrent and saying that the cops were there planning to ambush and murder bikers are two different things entirely. And, quite honestly, is a stupid comparison to make.
It is not stupid. It is damning to law enforcement, yes. And it is a reasonable explanation, considering how law enforcement conducts itself in this nation at both the local and national level.
To: arthurus
“I suspect all of them were hit by police bullets which is why the police dont want to release any information to anyone.”
No, because SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE, and witnesses said police probably SAVED lives.
/s
33
posted on
09/22/2015 7:18:43 AM PDT
by
treetopsandroofs
(Had FDR been GOP, there would have been no World Wars, just "The Great War" and "Roosevelt's Wars".)
To: thefactor
--
The fact that the police were there in order to act as a deterrent to biker gang violence is not in dispute. --
If they intended to act as a deterrent, they failed their mission.
I can think of several actions that the police could have taken, but didn't take, that would have been more effective at deterrence.
The police claim to have probable cause of conspiracy to commit aggravated assault or worse. Given that, they can arrest before things get violent. I have read that some of the troublemakers on the biker side had open warrants on other charges. A few arrests would have put the rest of the crowd on good behavior.
34
posted on
09/22/2015 7:21:31 AM PDT
by
Cboldt
To: don-o
Well, yeah. If the police released the video, it will show Cossacks and Banditos shooting at each other. They finally edited the video to where it matches their version of the incident. There is nothing new there. It was known all along that when the police got the video to match their version of the incident, the video[s] would start magically appearing.
35
posted on
09/22/2015 7:26:14 AM PDT
by
sport
To: thefactor
The fact that the police were there in order to act as a deterrent to biker gang violence is not in dispute. Perhaps more vigorous action could have actually deterred the violence. Showing up, parking at some (unspecified) distance from the TP and sitting in their cars is the lowest possible level of deterrence.
Affidavits submitted in property seizure proceedings state that dash cams show ominous movements from Cossacks on the patio as Bandidos rolled in. THAT would have been the time to escalate the deterrence.
Get out of your cars and key your loudspeaker!!!
I question whether cops had a handle on what was actually happening in real time.
36
posted on
09/22/2015 7:29:18 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: treetopsandroofs
I hope that the police don’t start saving lives in Plant City then. Or as least announce the day they are going to save lives.
37
posted on
09/22/2015 7:30:00 AM PDT
by
sport
To: treetopsandroofs
No, because SMALL, MEDIUM and LARGE, and witnesses said police probably SAVED lives. /s Well played.
38
posted on
09/22/2015 7:30:43 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
To: treetopsandroofs
When the police get a bit less paranoid about letting people know what went down, I may start to believe that stuff, depending on test results and the like. They are acting like they are trying to prevent or put off discovery of something that does not redound to police credit at all.
39
posted on
09/22/2015 8:16:29 AM PDT
by
arthurus
(It's true.)
To: null and void
Lots and lots of holes for the police firing 12 rounds.
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