The Truth about the Magna Carta

Accuracy in Academia ^ | September 20, 2015 | Spencer Irvine

[Verginius Rufus]

I meant that either English translation could be a correct translation of the Latin phrase, taken in isolation.

Here we are dealing with a specialized form of Latin, medieval legal Latin, where pares has become a technical term, so in this case "peers" would be the right way to translate it.

[Ohioan]

The “rebellion” mechanism, if you choose to call it that, which Magna Carta set up, was a Committee of 25 Barons, who were supposed to raise the population against the Government, if it broke the compact.

[frithguild]

The Pope ensured that Stephen Langton was the Archbishop of Canterbury contrary to the wishes of John of England, who mad a public enemy of anyone who recognized Langton as Archbishop. The Pope in turn place John under interdict and later imposed a sentence of deposition, which he committed to Phillip II of France. John yielded, but broke the terms of liberty granted by Henry I. Langton then became the leader of an insurrection of Barons that rallied to a call to restore liberties granted by Henry I. So it wan an insurrection with the tacit backing of the Pope that led to yet even greater liberties guarnateed by Magna Carta.

You are absolutely right about par. 61, that Langton personally negotiated, and it ensuring compliance by the Crown as being innovative. Those 25 Barons, however, were the rebels and not truly a representative body. That came later in history.

[Ohioan]

You are absolutely right about par. 61, that Langton personally negotiated, and it ensuring compliance by the Crown as being innovative. Those 25 Barons, however, were the rebels and not truly a representative body. That came later in history.

The 25 were designated, in effect, as representative. Neither they, the Founding Fathers nor I believe in universal male suffrage. The usual estimates are that the Founding Fathers had about 1/3 of the public on their side. The discussion by Jefferson in the Preamble to the Declaration, of course does not touch upon such questions, merely deals with the situation where the encroachment upon the legitimate purposes of Government becomes intolerable.

[frithguild]

In effect as representatives, perhaps.

John’s successor, Henry III ruled without a well organized councils of Barons and was slow to collect on their debts, while adhering to the royal charters. He called large assemblies of Barons called Parliaments to approve tax measures. The Magna Carta article 61 council thus came to lack formal organization.

The Barony during the later reign of Henry III became quite factionalized, which ultimately led to the Provisions of Oxford created a more formal institution and a Privy Council, which was far more of a representative institution. Thereafter, the Second Barons War was led by Simon de Montfort. After Henry III’s defeat and the reassertion of the Provisions of Oxford, he was little more than a figurehead.

[Ohioan]

You are really up on medieval English history. Are you perhaps a Professor of such?

Just curious.

[frithguild]

BS History ‘83 Emory. I mainly studied Europe and especially England and took a lot of legal history classes on my way to law school. I am blessed, and sometimes cursed, with a very long memory.

[Ohioan]

Wasn't General Longstreet's uncle, Augustus, the President of Emory in the 1830s? His short piece from Georgia Scenes, on the Debating Society, was a great favorite of Edgar Allan Poe's, when Poe was our foremost literary critic,. It is also one of my favorites, and is posted at my Conservative Web Site: See, Debating Society, for a bit of enjoyable comfort, at a time when we can all use same.

Of course, although the names are changed, it is obvious that Longstreet was one of the two having a bit of apt fun with their fellows in the events described.

[frithguild]

That I don’t know - it would make sense because one of the freshman dorms back then was Longstreet!

[SunkenCiv]

Note: this topic is from 09/21/2015. Thanks Academiadotorg.