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To: daniel1212

[[Souls in Hell certainly would choose to go to Heaven as well as back to earth if they could, and would welcome death, if it is TOO LATE!!!]]

no sir they will not- The rich man did NOT desire to go to heaven, He simply wanted people to tell his relatives to choose another path

The rich man was in hades, not hell- These people have not been judged yet, and were awaiting judgement- then they are thrown into hell

Matt. 8:12, “but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

nothing about repentance or wanting to cross into Heaven

[[They now have the kind of heart that would accept Christ,]]

To say people become contrite, and would choose heaven IF given the opportunity when in hell is to suggest that God is an unjust God who over punishes and shows no mercy when people finally ‘recognize the mistake they’ve made’.

There is NO indication in God’s word that this is so- There is however every indication that they will be so furious that they will gnash their teeth in anger and rebellion against God- the rich man only asked for pity, not for salvation

The bible NEVER teaches there is a desire for repentence in Hell- unsaved people go there because they hate God and will NOT obey Him- they go to their father the Devil who also hates God and who also rails against God.

The rich man STILL wanted to dictate how things should be by asking that the rules be suspended for him- that does not sound like humbled, non contentious- but rather continued disobedience

While it is true every knee WILL bow, there is no indication that they like what they are doing- But rather they do so because they must because truth is truth-

[[Souls in Hell certainly would choose to go to Heaven ]]

There is no biblical basis for this- there is a biblical basis for the idea that sinners go to hell willingly, and that their sin continues on for eternity because God is NOT an unjust God-

rev 19 (v. 9)...They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds (v. 11), and that Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great (v. 21).

[[Read what Dr. James White of Alpha & Omega Ministries said in a sermon titled “The Carmen Christi” at Arann Reformed Baptist Church earlier this year(around 47:15 mark):

…right now God restrains the madness of man, but once the restraint is taken off in hell itself, what torture must it be to stand upon the parapets of hell screaming your hatred of God for eternity, knowing there is nothing you can do any longer, to in any way hurt God or his creation. People say “we are going to be partying in hell”. No. You are going to be alone. Alone with your hatred and self destruction.

You don’t stop sinning. That’s why the punishment doesn’t stop. And I am convinced that if you were to reach into the pit of hell, 10,000 years into eternity, grab a smoking soul, bring it out and sit it down, and say “Here’s your choice: either love the Lord your God with your heart, soul, mind and strength and worship Him in purity or turn around and walk right back in to where you are” every single one would turn around, spit at you and dive right back into where they were.]]


86 posted on 09/20/2015 11:23:33 AM PDT by Bob434
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To: Bob434
The rich man did NOT desire to go to heaven, He simply wanted people to tell his relatives to choose another path

You simply cannot say that he did not want to go to Heaven, at least implicitly, and the fact is that Abraham had a reason for saying that there was a great gulf fixed btwn the two realms that prevented crossing. If no one wanted to be with Abraham then why mention it?

And it is clear that the rich man wanted relief, and if even a drop of water would give such as per his humble request, then how much more would a place where there is neither hunger nor thirst, though in his state he could not desire it.

It is to such basic desire to escape wrath that the Lord appealed to in advising us to cut off whatever would send us to Hell. Therefore it can be said that the lost in Hell would want Heaven as much as a person who was motivated to repent due to the warnings alone of unquenchable fire. How much more the reality.

The rich man was in hades, not hell- These people have not been judged yet, and were awaiting judgement- then they are thrown into hell

Wrong. Hades is Hell (which, from sheol, can also means just the grave), from which souls are cast into the lake of fire after formal judgment. (Rv 20:13)

Matt. 8:12, “but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” nothing about repentance or wanting to cross into Heaven

Actually, weeping and gnashing of teeth is associated with the realization of what they missed out on, which presupposes they desired it.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

To say people become contrite, and would choose heaven IF given the opportunity when in hell is to suggest that God is an unjust God who over punishes and shows no mercy when people finally ‘recognize the mistake they’ve made’.

Wrong, as God would be perfectly just in showing no mercy, and is under no obligation to do so, or to grant repentance even in this life (God could have brought Sodom to repentance). And while God does promise salvation to all who call upon Christ in repentant faith, yet this pertains to this life, which is what God presents as the place where one's eternity is settled, if not their degree of reward and punishment.

There is NO indication in God’s word that this is so- There is however every indication that they will be so furious that they will gnash their teeth in anger and rebellion against God- the rich man only asked for pity, not for salvation

Wrong, as their is no indication in God’s word that they will be so furious that they will gnash their teeth in anger and rebellion against God, but which you are reading into Scripture.

Instead of raging against God as if they were being unjustly punished, the Lord describes the rich man as humbly accepting his punishment, only daring to ask for a drop of water to cool his tongue in his torments.

In addition, rather than gnashing their teeth in anger and rebellion against God, what the Lord indicates is that the gnashing is due to the pain one realizes, as the Lord shall "cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:50)

In addition, Rv. 5 describes all creation glorifying God, which as including even the devil, would be due to belatedly confessing what is fact, but was rejected on earth.

The bible NEVER teaches there is a desire for repentence in Hell- unsaved people go there because they hate God and will NOT obey Him- they go to their father the Devil who also hates God and who also rails against God.

Rather, why earnestly desire repentance for others while not desiring it yourself? For Scripture clearly shows the rich man pleaded that his brethren be motivated to repentance. The fact is that the bible never teaches there is no desire for repentance in Hell, and instead teaches men as the rich man plead others be moved to it, and thus it implies they wish that would be an option for them. But instead they are hope-less.

The rich man STILL wanted to dictate how things should be by asking that the rules be suspended for him- that does not sound like humbled, non contentious- but rather continued disobedience

Wrong, and frankly absurd, as earnestly desiring mercy is not dictating and being contentious in continued disobedience !, while he did not even know the rules, but pleaded if perhaps it was possible. And was without contention at the replies. According to your reasoning, the women who pleaded with the Lord to cast out the demons from her daughter was dictating and being contentious in continued disobedience since she had no right to ask for such.

While it is true every knee WILL bow, there is no indication that they like what they are doing- But rather they do so because they must because truth is truth-

There is no indication that they resist what they are doing, instead of belatedly confessing what they know is Truth, in regret, not rage. While Scripture indicates souls are ignorant in Hell (b4 the final judgment) of the degree of their sins, and thus plead that they did mighty works, Scripture shows the rich man as asking for mercy, even for others, and does not translate into raging against God, as on earth. And it is also hardly reasonable to think God would leave souls raging at him in ignorance for eternity.

rev 19 (v. 9)...They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds (v. 11), and that Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great (v. 21).

Which is your error, that of assuming men souls in this realm like the rich man was will be like raging at God in the next out of perceived injustice. Instead, we see a man pleading for mercy for himself others, without contention at the replies.

Read what Dr. James White of Alpha & Omega Ministries said

Which is who and what you are following here, but while his reasoning is understandable, it simply does not follow what we do seen in Scripture, but is reading into it. Which instead shows a man desiring mercy and repentance for others, and gnashing of teeth being due to the torment of the fire.

Yet when one even charges the rich man in Hell with acting as a contentious dictator then there is little hope for reasonable exchange.

98 posted on 09/20/2015 2:37:06 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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