Trump calls for U.S. ground troops in Iraq

MSN (Time) ^ | 16 AUG 2015 | Justin Worland

[Longbow1969]

You’re still making excuses for Trump.

You seem unable to be objective about “the Donald”. Being for the ENDA is a very liberal position. It’s not the kind of thing one can just overlook because you like his other positions and “Oh, c’mon. A smart employer will find other reasons to fire them if they don’t work well with the team” does not cut it.

He has many other troubling positions too, but you may not be able to discuss those in a logical, rational way. Just from today, what is all this talk about “rebuilding our infrastructure”? Since when is that a conservative position. Didn’t we just have a stimulus package? And now Trump is sort of rambling about another.

Trump is a not a conservative is the problem. He is a populist protectionist with some conservative positions (along with some liberal ones) - but he is not a conservative. Are you really so sure that Trump would protect the 2nd amendment if he were President and another Sandy Hook occurred on his watch? I’m not. Are you really confident in the kind of nominees Trump would make as President? Last I heard he was talking about nominating people like uber liberal Warren Buffet.

[Forward the Light Brigade]

Trying to use the threat of war to sink Trump. Worked to stop Goldwater—Wilson used the “He kept us out of war” mantra to get elected then plunged us into WW I.

[SunkenCiv]

This is where he goes off the rails.

I thought I'd reprise that one, I've used it once myself.

And it never works.

If a train leaves Kansas City heading east at 40 mph, and Donald Trump starts west from NYC by walking along the rails, at what time does he reach Los Angeles?

[grania]

He (Trump) is a populist protectionist with some conservative positions

I'm okay with that description. Probably what the US needs at this juncture.

We get your game. It's to move some of the conservative votes to another candidate, so Jeb, Walker, Kasich, and Christie can sneak in there with a flatter field.

[Longbow1969]

I'm okay with that description. Probably what the US needs at this juncture

Right, you would prefer a populist protectionist to an actual conservative. Is that your game? Pushing someone who isn't an actual conservative on us? Hmmmmm?

We get your game. It's to move some of the conservative votes to another candidate, so Jeb, Walker, Kasich, and Christie can sneak in there with a flatter field.

Well, you see this is an opinion forum. One that caters to conservatives. You shouldn't be shocked if actual conservatives are wary of someone who you yourself admitted is more a populist protectionist. Throwing out the Jeb canard doesn't help you since my preferred candidate is Cruz.

If you Trumpsters can't take the heat now, your gonna really hate life when the race gets closer and Trump's statements such as his apparent support for ENDA are really scrutinized.

Lighten up, we have a long way to go in this race. The first primary is still months away.

[berdie]

I have enjoyed your posts on this thread. Perhaps because they mirror my own thoughts. Perhaps because they are very reasoned.

I am watching all of the candidates right now. I lean toward Cruz. And I like Carson but fear Washington would eat him alive.

If a friend and I were sitting at the kitchen table, we might say the same things Trump is saying. Execution of those things are a whole ‘nother matter.

You are right...the first primary is months away. Anyone of them could self destruct in that period of time. Even Trump. Heck...I don’t even vote early...anything could happen.

[gusty]

For arguments sake, let’s say we do seize the oil fields. Then what. How many troops would be needed to prevent the locals from blowing up the pipelines. How many troops would be needed to protect convoys of oil trucks going to the ports. Who would like to drive an oil tanker hundreds of miles with hostile locals with plenty of RPG’s lining the highway. If we instead destroy the oil fields, wouldn’t that mean higher oil prices as there less of a supply in the world. You can come up with an endless list of problems.

[South40]

You can come up with an endless list of problems.

Yes, you can. Including one that I don't want to see, more dead Americans.

I have attended hundreds of military funerals and witnessed the grief stricken families first hand. We don't need more.

[Longbow1969]

I have enjoyed your posts on this thread. Perhaps because they mirror my own thoughts. Perhaps because they are very reasoned.

Thank you.

I try to be as logical and unemotional about this stuff as I can. I am not a fan of Trump because I don't believe he is a conservative, but I also make it a point to commend him when I think he is right and has explained his position. I agree with Trump on immigration, very much so actually - and am impressed with the plan he put out this weekend. I also like that Trump says things that no one else running now (or even in the past) have the guts to say. It's why I sometimes try to look at his statements (such as seizing the oil) and rather than just dismissing them, try to see if there is any way to flesh them out and present them to an audience outside his echo chamber.

I think at this stage it is worthwhile for us to debate passionately, play a bit of devils advocate sometimes, and try to demonstrate fairness - even candidates we may not like or have suspicions about. It is okay to be a harsh critic if such criticisms generate thoughtful arguments about the candidates and their positions.

I agree with you about Carson. I like him. More than I thought I would. And I thought his debate performance was quite good - but I worry that someone without political chops will get destroyed in Washington. Yes, that means I am wary of the non-politician so many people seem to want. Politics is an art, just like any other job. If you don't have the skills for it, you won't get very far or much done.

It's funny that way. People always say they want a "regular guy/gal like you and me", but the minute such a person emerges and makes the kind of mistakes and gaffes you 'd expect from a newbie to the political game, they are shot down mercilessly and made fun of to the point their candidacies are relegated to vanity status. So basically, like on so many issues, people say one thing but vote completely differently. It's like the old question you can ask the same group of people and get completely contradictory responses. Ask a group of people if they want someone that stands on principle and you'll always get a majority that say yes. Now ask the same group the next day if they want someone who will compromise to get along with the other side, and you'll also get a majority to say yes to that as well.

We have a long way to go. It should be a very interesting primary season indeed.

[berdie]

I totally agree.

Until we are in it to win it...none of our troops should be sent to the he!! holes of the world. I despise what ISIS is doing...but we won’t be allowed to take them out. By what’s left of the Iraqi government, The UN...by the media.

Could we win this war? No doubt. Would we be allowed to take measures to do so...not likely.

[berdie]

I enjoy debate as well even though I’m not on line and on FR as much as I would like.

I liked Trump’s immigration plan as well. But implementation of his plan? I see numerous problems. If the other candidates see, by his rising poll numbers, that is what the people want perhaps they will change their views. If so, that is a win. Originally, his immigration plan wasn’t quite so extreme. I was on board. I would like it to be his current stance but I don’t see it happening.

In any case...he has made it entertaining so far. Not that I would ever vote Dem...but that side is getting pretty interesting as well.

[Longbow1969]

I think with immigration, Trump would get whatever he could from his list. I think the one thing conservatives generally agree on is a big “no thanks” to comprehensive immigration reform. We will do fine getting whatever we can piecemeal if necessary. Trump has a list of specifics, I agree with them. I am not a big fan of Trump’s, but immigration to me is very important and he has put it front and center. If we don’t stop this tide of illegals coming in, we really aren’t going to recognize this country in another generation.

Implementation of the plan will largely require a Republican majority in Congress and Trump doing an endless sales job with the American people. That’s what Presidents have to do, especially now in this Information Age we are in. I think Trump could sell at least parts of this plan were he elected. Some of these items on his immigration agenda are better than none. No, he is not going to be able to reverse birthright citizenship unless he can appoint 4-5 new Supreme Court judges that agree with him, but he can at least get some of it done.

I am not sure it is realistic that we will ever round up all the illegals and send them back. But just deporting the ones in the legal system, building a wall, ratcheting up pressure on Mexico to do something about the problem on their end, etc, are all things that will help alleviate the problem. On this issue, Trump is the only one willing to say things that the rest are afraid of. He is defying the PC police and beltway wisdom on immigration and I have to give him kudos for it.

I still support Cruz, and in the end I really don’t believe Trump will be the nominee. I rather suspect his campaign will implode by some flip statement that eventually does him in. Once the media really turns on him, there is enough out there that they can probably destroy his candidacy. Right now the left wing media think he is hurting the GOP, so they are going lightly on him. That won’t last. But I am hoping the issues Trump is seizing on will rub off on the other candidates. Maybe they will realize they don’t need to be so scared of what the mainstream media, entertainment establishment, etc, thinks of them. Maybe they will all be a bit bolder, fight liberal media narratives, etc, basically copy some of what is working for Trump.

Yes, things are interesting on the Democrat side. Hillary is a terrible candidate, but still probably the nominee. She is weak, we can beat her if we run a good campaign that is bold and unafraid of speaking to our conservative values. If Sanders winds up the nominee, we may even win with some coattails which would be nice.

[berdie]

I’m not a one issue voter, but if I were it would be immigration. Both legal and illegal. I see our country slipping away and it scares the heck out of me.

No doubt Trump is a good salesman. But I have grave doubts about Congress. I really think they have convinced themselves that the amnesty deal is a way to retain votes and stay in power. So unless he goes EO I don’t see how his proposals will work. I don’t want to see that happen...with any future president. But I do agree..any little part will be better than none at all. Just e-verify could be a huge deterrent. And cutting off any “benefits” yet another. I like the fee on money sent “home” but am not sure how that would wok.

I’m totally for deporting criminals in the legal system. But sending families away? It would be nice...but I don’t see it. Not in the liberal climate in the US today. Remember Elian Gonzalez? That would be peanuts compared to the proposal.

But at least Trump is bringing it out for discussion.

I keep thinking the Dems will trot Julian Castro out a little earlier than their plan. It worked with Obama...why not him? Nah...he doesn’t have the “star power” but it might work out for them. Of course the Dems like their socialists...like Sanders. I really think we can beat them if we run the right candidate...and try to keep Congress. No, I’m not a Repub I’m conservative.