Posted on 07/14/2015 8:46:27 AM PDT by bob_denard
Wonder what happens when a nation held together only by a set of common ideas no longer has those ideas in common?
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
John Stuart-Mill
Somalia...that’s what happens.
The first rule of damage control is save what you got then try to control the damage else where. Your state may be the only thing worth saving at this point.
So we go from federal empire to Somalia. What about the states? Can you not grasp the “republic”.
“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”
John Stuart-Mill
Vs
“I do not care about the other 49 states, I care about my freedom . Screw them.” central VA
“So we go from federal empire to Somalia. What about the states? Can you not grasp the “republic””.
Make up your mind....you already said screw them.
“I do not care about the other 49 states, I care about my freedom . Screw them.” central VA
34% of Texans said yes.
They were not asked what their opinion was if the secession were not to be peaceful.
central va, even if I were the twerpiest twerp who ever twerped, it wouldn't change the fact that I have not spoken on behalf of Texans - I've merely observed what Texans themselves say.
It is the Russians in Texan clothing who make up the TNM who are pretendinmg to speak for Texas.
Interestingly, the poll numbers also suggested that the desire of Virginians and New Jerseyans to secede are effectively the same within the poll's margin of error.
Of course, New Jersey was also the last loyal state to abolish slavery, and we also voted for McClellan in 1864.
Interestingly, all the former Confederate states besides Texas were 10 points or more lower on the secession question than Texas.
That's probably because the Civil War wasn't really fought in Texas - Virginians and Georgians had more firsthand knowledge of the practical consequences of secession than Texans ever did.
But enough Texans survived the Battle of Franklin to at least bring the message home, apparently.
With the recent “successes” of il Douche, I’d like to see a re-poll. When the dollar collapses and there is economic chaos a lot of states are not going to go down with the ship. Mark my words. What we have now is classic normalcy bias.
“So we go from federal empire to Somalia. What about the states? Can you not grasp the “republic””.
Make up your mind....you already said screw them.
“I do not care about the other 49 states, I care about my freedom . Screw them.” central VA
Well?....you painted yourself into a corner.....now what?
Which statement do you wish to disavow?
Some might view it as Sedition.
Hawaii on the other hand is an oppressed minority so for them it is just a protest. Same for Alaska secessionists. Texas on the other hand.........
“Alaska secessionists”
LMAO!!...Yeah I’m sure Russia would respect their soverienty....just ask rhe Ukrainians.
This is an interesting article and rather than do 15 separate posts, I’ll just do one.
I like this analogy so I’ll continue to use it. The situation that conservatives face right now is like a very bad marriage. Over a space of years, the wife in this marriage has burned down the house, shot the dog, sold the kid’s kidneys on craigslist, and drained the family bank account to buy crack. And now, we’ve come home and found the wife banging the neighbors on the front yard. A marriage like this is beyond the scope of marital counseling. And the answers to the question : “what to do?” strike me as being remarkably similar. Denial, divorce, continuing to be cuckolded, abandonment, domestic violence, seeking an accomodation outside of the marriage,seem to all be discussed.
I’ll start this by noting that I am not a fan of political secession. Mostly because I think there is a better than fair chance that a lot of dead Americans would be the end result. The cure is worse than the disease. So to continue the analogy, I’m not interested in any domestic violence “solution.”
There is the argument that secession would be a peaceful and amicable divorce. I guess that’s possible, but so far I see nothing in the actions of the uniparty political leadership to indicate any hesitation in implementing the worst kinds of repression if that would maintain their grip on power. Civil disobedience, peaceful secession, article V conventions all implicitly assume that the opposition has some civility, honor, and decency.
My observation is that those virtues seem to be lacking in the population in general and the political class in particular.
There is also the prideful, hopeful solution. One that says by gosh we can turn this around! I would argue that’s just denial by another name. Where is the evidence that there will be a sudden political epiphany? What has changed? “This time will be different” isn’t a plan, it’s the mantra of a battered spouse.
There is also the tacit acceptance of the status quo. Where we accept that we’re dealing with a two-timing, addicted, vengeful, amoral counterpart and accept our cuckolding. Not a very hopeful solution. Not much better or different than denial.
And then there is the approach of accommodation outside the marriage. Kind of like acceptance on the one hand, but living your life as best you can outside the marriage. In case you couldn’t tell, this is the alternative I favor.
Politics is in my view a lagging indicator to economics and culture. If secession is ever seriously considered it will be because the economics and culture have already changed. I’ll also note that just because a relatively few people favor secession at this point doesn’t mean that it won’t gain traction later. Some of the more strident and dare I say panicky posts on this thread would lead me to conclude that the idea is gaining some traction.
Yours is a reasonable post.
As I always say on these threads, let me know when some folks in Texas’ elected office are advocating secession.
So far I don’t think there are any (although I’m 800 miles away).
Because the legislature isn’t going to wake up one morning and pass that legislation.
Thanks.
One thing you might want to reconsider, though, is whether Texas would be the first state to go that way, as seems to be frequently assumed.
No idea, really.
I think it would have to be a state with a young population because one of the premises of the financial math of secession is that they would deport all the older folks on Medicare and SocSec. I can’t say that would work very well as a way to get elected to office in most states.
Utah, Idaho, and Texas are the “youngest” states.
Local politics, economics, and attitudes enter into it as well. Hawaii for example.
True, Hawaii is close to the top of the states that are benefiting from federal largesse relative to their tax “contribution”.
So can’t see them wanting to lose that.
Thanks for the info. Forwarding it to those I know that will be interested in attending.
Native Texans love their country, but they love Texas more. We were a Republic long before we became a state. It is in our blood. It is our heritage.
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