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The Forgotten Realities of World War II
Townhall.com ^ | May 14, 2015 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 05/14/2015 4:52:09 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: Kaslin
With his eastern rear thus secure, Hitler then would be free to fight a one-front war in the West against the European democracies.

Shirer, who was there for the catastrophe, saw it differently. He was certain from close and continuous observation of the Nazi regime, that the ultimate goal was to the East. According to his sources at the time, the plan was to stall off Russia, secure the Reich's Western front as the rear, neutralize Britain in the Med and Africa, then turn full fury on the Russian land mass.

The plan was a good one, and could have worked, but Hitler was so obsessed with conquering Russia that he pulled several million crack troops out of the Southern Theatre before achieving solid objectives.

Britain was just about ready to pull out of the war when Hitler launched on Russia, using the armies he could have left in the Med for long enough to win.

Had Hitler secured his southern flank as he had his western flank, he could have reached the three objectives of Barbarossa before the Red Army could begin to mount a stout defense.

I have never before heard Hanson's interpretation that Hitler's goals went westward.

41 posted on 05/14/2015 4:41:54 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: GOP_Party_Animal
I believe the United States supplied fully 1/3 of the USSR’s GNP in order to turn the war against the Germans.

I once spent hours talking with a man who served in Iran during WW II as a construction engineer. During the war we built a whole railroad and highway system from Tehran north into Turkmenistan and supplied the USSR with trainloads of trucks, tractors, all manner of vehicles and shipments of war materiel. For all the bravado of the Red Army, they got their supplies in convoys of American trucks and ate SPAM to survive.

42 posted on 05/14/2015 4:56:23 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Leaning Right
When Hitler "remilitarized" the Rhineland, the German army was little more than a militia. France had the largest and best supplied military in Europe. If they had so willed, France could have easily kicked the Germans back out of Rhineland with no problem. That they chose not to act, led Hitler to realize the "western democracies" would go to great lengths not fight another war. He was right for a long time, proving the well known adage that weakness invites aggression.
43 posted on 05/14/2015 5:03:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Sherman Logan
Demographic calculations make this unlikely.

The forced famine of the Ukraine 1932-33 killed anywhere from 7 to 10 million innocent civilians. For starters.

Read Stalin's Genocides by Norman Naimark for the rest of the story of the Soviet death regime.

44 posted on 05/14/2015 5:10:56 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

Sorry, but you didn’t address the demographic argument I actually made.

It has been proposed that upwards of 60M died due to the crimes of Stalinism. Which need to be added to the numbers killed in the wars. Yet the population increased over this period at about the same rate as the USA.

Keeping in mind that most of the murders resulted in the absence not only of the persons killed from the later numbers, but also their potential children and grandchildren, how is that even possible?


45 posted on 05/14/2015 5:23:02 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: hinckley buzzard

I think you are entirely right. The Nazis really wanted to make a deal with UK.

Germany would take Europe and perhaps North Africa and the Middle East.

UK would dominate the non-Aryans in the rest of the world.

They fully expected that UK would agree to this deal after being kicked off the Continent. It would have been, after all, the logical thing to do.


46 posted on 05/14/2015 5:28:29 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: rman04554

Hitler was doomed when Stalin re located his factories in and behind the Ural Mountains. In a war of attrition with Russia Germany would lose. Germany did not have the natural resources or manpower to win a war of attrition. When Hitler declared war upon the United States, his fate was sealed. It was just a matter of time. And time was not on Germany’s side.


47 posted on 05/14/2015 5:30:04 PM PDT by sport
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To: mj1234; Dan(9698)
I always wondered if the war in Europe started
just 2 years later- with Germany able to actually
have 300 submarines AT sea all the time-
if their Army was outfitted close to 10 million-
if they Actually helped to train the Italians-

would they have won?


I remember back in the 1980's when I was in high school German class, during holiday times, we often had conversations that ran off on tangents. One of them was the "what if" where the war started later than it did and like what you said, if it did, it would or could have been worse. My German teach said that if he held back as far as 1950 or close to it, given hat time to develop rockets and the atom bomb, he could have dominated the world at least to the point of an American/German Cold War. Of course, this is barring things like Hit;er's health and Parkinson's but it is food for thought.
48 posted on 05/14/2015 8:34:34 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: Nowhere Man
Yeah, but then we'd have to deal with a belligerent Russia always trying to dominate Europe.

Hey, wait a minute...

49 posted on 05/14/2015 8:39:45 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: VanDeKoik
Europe was at its peak in 1900. The world was its oyster, only challenged by the U.S. And Japan.

But they decided to commit continental suicide not just once, but twice to make sure the job was done.

And look at them! Just shells milking the last bit of dignity of nations that took centuries of great people to build.


Good points, I think World War I weakened Western Civ a bit but I think it could have come back form that blow if World War II didn't happen. World War II did a good thing illustrating the ultimate evil where a country actually allocated part of their industrial ability just for the elimination of "undesirable humans" in their eyes so we can (hopefully) learn from history in the hopes of stopping future tyants from doing that. We didn't learn too much it seems from time to time which brings up my second point. I think because of both wars, especially the latter, many nations and societies are afraid to use too much force in order to survive because there are detractors out there that would play "The Hitler Card." Trouble is, while our hands are tied, our enemies are not and we are in danger of losing it all.
50 posted on 05/14/2015 8:40:16 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: jumpingcholla34

I always thought that if Japan did not attack PEarl Harbor dragging us into the war, I think the U.S. would have gotten involved anyway at some point. If I had to pick when I would say most likely by mid 1942, my guess the Germans would have provoked something be it accidental or by intent.


51 posted on 05/14/2015 8:43:53 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: Kaslin

I’m in China, now. When I was here last November, I ran into a Russian girl, a student, who aggressively asked me if I thought that the US won World War II.

I replied, “No. It was a team effort. But Russia helped start it.”


52 posted on 05/14/2015 11:38:42 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: Nowhere Man
it is food for thought.

Tyrants always think they are smarter than anyone else. If Hitler had listened to his Generals, there are a lot of things that could have come out differently. He followed in the footsteps of other tyrants such as Napoleon.

The overriding thing was his health. He had given a time frame of starting in 1946 to the Navy. They were building up aimed at that date, and were really upset that he started earlier than they were ready.

Parkinson's made it mandatory that it start while he had time to accomplish what he had in mind. He figured he could just by force of his will, speed it up.

We see the same divorced from reality in Obummer now.

53 posted on 05/15/2015 5:47:44 AM PDT by Dan(9698)
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To: sport

Hitler was doomed when he declared war on the United States


54 posted on 03/24/2023 4:38:59 AM PDT by rman04554
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