Posted on 04/14/2015 11:57:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
:):):)!! Fair Tax. The best Tax Plan Ever! Cruz is right and Rubio is way off base.
I was astonished that Rubio was quoted as saying he couldn’t imagine anyone overriding an executive order on amnesty! That’s going to come back to bite him in the butt bigtime!
>> Smart business people do not spend $20M on bad ideas.
Leaving aside the fact that throughout history “smart business people” HAVE REPEATEDLY spent far LARGER sums on terrible ideas... you are putting forth an “appeal to authority” logical fallacy as the underpinning of your entire case. You haven’t even bothered to establish who these supposed “authorities” are so we can evaluate whether or not we want to look into *their* arguments.
>> The problem with The Fair Tax is most people are sheep
There are multiple serious known problems with the Fair Tax, among which are that it penalizes those on fixed incomes and that as a practical matter it will be nearly impossible to keep it from turning into a European-style VAT implemented ALONGSIDE an income tax. But saying that the main problem with it is that we’re all sheep who like a federal income tax refund is beyond ludicrous... it’s downright disrespectful to your audience.
Can you help me understand why so many fair tax advocates are such condescending demagogues? Do y’all fail to argue the idea on its merits and resort to silly attacks because the merits collapse upon closer examination? Or what?
Great idea...your grandma who spends 80% of her income on medical costs will pay the same rate as Trump. And, she can live on nothing...but at least it is flat.
By the same logic, implement the “unfair tax” and force Grandma to choose between spending nothing (except on things that her government betters deem are her minimum requirements for existence), or having her fixed income taxed away at the cash register.
Kinda hot in that apartment, Granny? Need a new air conditioner? Pony up, bitch. Pipes broke in that last freeze? Pony up.
An important philosophical question is: should the “poor” (including Grandma) pay tax at all? Or should some in society — those chosen by their wise betters in government — pay nothing, and some pay more?
A reasonable flat tax IS a fair tax. Grandma needs defense and a highway system too. Why should she pay nothing?
Great logic...granny needs defense so she and the Donald pay the same rate. At least that broad pays something! That will teach her to breathe. But, Donald appreciates it.
Does anyone recall Steve Forbes?
A fair-rate flat tax puts Granny and The Donald on the same team, doesn’t it?
Both of them will get their butts to the polls and do their utmost to elect those who will keep that rate LOW.
Sounds great to me!
The overlooked issue with a flat tax is not everyone pays tax like those working under the table or drug dealers for example yet they get all the services and benefits we taxpayers fund. With Fair Tax or a consumption tax those people can’t avoid paying taxes if they buy anything. While I wish no one had to pay taxes how would we finance the services likes roads, national defense for instance. Boortz wrote a wonderful book explaining how Fair Tax could work.
But, what exactly is going to be different? You still have to measure income...does it include Social Security? Does it include all of the money you got selling stock? What about the amount you paid for it? What about selling your home because you had to move for a transfer? What if you spent all your income on an accident you caused?
>> not everyone pays tax like those working under the table or drug dealers for example yet they get all the services and benefits we taxpayers fund.
Yes, there is an “underground economy” now, wherein folks earn money that is not taxed. And it’s not fair to the rest of us that do.
However, if a national sales tax is implemented, there will certainly be an “underground economy” build around selling goods without a hefty (20+ per cent) tax attached to them.
My point: the so-called “fair tax” will not stop tax cheating, it will only change the mechanism of cheating.
Underground economy would easily be deterred by tax between those who make the goods and those who later sell them which seller would recoup at time they sell. At least I wouldn’t watch 20 year olds with new BMW who has no job whereby they pay any tax.
>> You still have to measure income
Of course.
>> does it include Social Security?
Yes.
>> Does it include all of the money you got selling stock? What about the amount you paid for it?
Recovering what you paid for an asset — also called its “basis” — is not income. Profit (sales price minus basis) — from sale of a home, a share of stock, whatever — is taxed at the flat rate. Just as it is now, by the way.
>> What about selling your home because you had to move for a transfer?
Sucks to be you. I don’t mean to be flippant or harsh, but as conservatives, do we really expect government to shield us from every eventuality in life, with social engineering via the tax policy? That kind of thinking is what landed us where we are now — in a real complicated mess!
But you only pay tax on the sale of your home if you MAKE money on the home.
Now consider a forced move in light of National Sales Tax. What if the only way you can afford the move is to sell all your stuff (at a loss) and repurchase it after the move — with a 23% sales tax tacked on? Ouch.
>> What if you spent all your income on an accident you caused?
What if you are suddenly unable to work under a National Sales Tax regime? Your income goes to zero, but there’s no tax break on that. However, your need to buy your kids toys and school supplies, your wife, clothes, &etc. My point is, with either plan you can set up “what if” straw men that have a tough row to hoe.
>> Underground economy would easily be deterred by tax between those who make the goods and those who later sell them
Oh goody! A “value added tax”.
All that would be necessary to achieve that from a “national sales tax” is to skip the reimbursement at the end!
But of course our completely honorable politicians would NEVER do that... like Europe. Would they?
And that “pay on inventory, rebate on sale” sounds horribly complex.
Plus, it doesn’t account for ALL of the tax due... just the tax up to the last wholesale step. Still plenty of incentive to operate a black market.
Please think this through. It doesn’t sound like much of a beneficial change to me.
Wait a minute...you just complicated your "flat" tax...no deductions. 6 months and we have what we have now. Seems like changes aren't necessary.
Basis isn’t a “deduction”. Basis is just what the word means: — the “base” value of an income-producing asset, upon which profit (income) or loss is based.
Put so that perhaps you can understand it: if you cash in a bank CD, you don’t pay flat tax on the whole amount of the CD, because you yourself GAVE most that to the bank on deposit. You pay tax on the INCOME from your “base value” (principle), which you and the bank call “interest”.
Its “principal”. But, your scheme is just as complicated as the present situation. Seems that we need both a sales tax and a lower income tax. Otherwise, folks will go offshore to buy, thus harming the economy here.
>> Its “principal”.
I guessed. 50-50 and I lost. :-) I stand corrected.
>> But, your scheme is just as complicated as the present situation.
I believe flat tax is far simpler than the current mess, but we can agree to disagree.
By the way, here is an interesting article that discusses both fair tax and flat tax:
http://bigthink.com/experts-corner/fair-tax-or-flat-tax
Here’s how their conclusion begins:
“So again, which should we choose, a Fair Tax or a Flat Tax? The answer is: whichever one can gain traction...”
I would prefer flat tax, but I can go along with the “first to gain traction” if it gets rid of the IRS.
It’s been fun, but I have to go back to making money for them to tax now. :-)
FRegards
The transition is the problem - changing the rules in the middle of the game for people working now. It has nothing to do with ‘social engineering.’
Senator Rubio needs to get on board with the FairTax!
NO! NO! NO! Rubio’s plan leaves us with an income tax.
We need the repeal of the 16th Amendment. KILL the income tax DEAD!
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