Wisconsin Assembly passes right-to-work bill after 19 hours of debate

chicagotribune.com ^ | 3/6/15

[Vigilanteman]

Thanks for the clarification. Those of us outside Wisconsin hear only the general media platitudes and wonder "what's all the fuss about."

Now, I understand a little better.Or, to put it more crudely, those who toss their $hi+ into the fan shouldn't complain when they get splattered too.

[vette6387]

“Right to work doesn’t increase employment opportunies...RTW lowers wages and working conditions...And as I said, it will put a lot more people on welfare which we will have to pay for...”

That is debatable! I submit that if US unions were really for their US citizen workers, they would not be working to organize the illegal aliens who have come here and ARE DEPRESSING WAGES. What unions have done is elevate wages in jobs where those wage levels are not appropriate. Here in Northern California, we have our rapid transit workers (mostly black I might add) who, with benefits make nearly $100,000 for sitting on their asses on the trains just in case the ATC falls. And the original legislation ( promulgated back in the 1960’s) requires that these workers be paid no less than the most highly paid transit workers anywhere in the country. Unions have driven this country out of the steelmaking business and are in the process of making sure that we don’t make any cars here anymore either. The recent problems with the “Big 3” (and let’s not let Ford off the hook, because they were a hair’s breadth from going down with GM And Chrysler), are mostly related to these companies inability to fund their pensions for retired workers. Indexed pensions here in CA will ultimately put our state government in bankruptcy. All thanks to union greed and weak-kneed management.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

[Walker hired Michael J. Gallagher, 31, an former Marine captain and Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffer, as his foreign-policy aide. Gallagher has moved to Madison and began work this week.]

Captain Michael Gallagher, USMC

"Fellow, Marine Corps' Junior Officer Strategic Intelligence Program Mike Gallagher is currently a fellow in the Marine Corps’ Junior Officer Strategic Intelligence Program and a student in the joint M.A. in Security Studies/Ph.D. in International Relations program at Georgetown University. Prior to this assignment, he served on General Petraeus’ CENTCOM Assessment Team and deployed twice to Al Anbar Province between 2007 and 2008 as a commander of intelligence teams.

Mike holds a Master of Science in Strategic Intelligence from National Defense Intelligence College. He received his undergraduate degree from the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University, earning a certificate in Near Eastern Studies. At Georgetown, he intends to explore the role of intelligence in grand strategy design and presidential decision-making. Mike speaks Arabic and grew up in both Green Bay, WI and Costa Mesa, CA."

[Iscool]

Unions have driven this country out of the steelmaking business and are in the process of making sure that we don’t make any cars here anymore either. The recent problems with the “Big 3” (and let’s not let Ford off the hook, because they were a hair’s breadth from going down with GM And Chrysler), are mostly related to these companies inability to fund their pensions for retired workers. Indexed pensions here in CA will ultimately put our state government in bankruptcy. All thanks to union greed and weak-kneed management.

The stories that I read claim that money was so good back in those day that the big 3 never balked at those agreements...They never suspected money would ever get short...They deserve some of the blame...As far as other pension, those in charge seem to always spend the money so it's not there when it's needed/promised...

As far as the high union wages, I see it about the same as the sports teams...It's outrageous that a picture can get $35,000 per pitch, but isn't it just as outrageous that the owners are making so much they can afford to pay it, plus a bunch???

Car makers are making billions in profit, per quarter...Why should the employees not be paid well???

Some seem to like unions...Germanys' Volkswagon comes to mind...

Unions provide many things for the employers...They provide apprenticeships for skilled employees...In many cases they provide organization and stability for the company...

I've worked a couple of non union places where a union would have provided no benefit to the company...But then they ran their companies like union shops, ie, work rules, benefits, overtime, etc...

[Teacher317]

Car makers are making billions in profit, per quarter...Why should the employees not be paid well???

That's not your call to make. You want to make the decisions? Go start your own car company, and stay the hell out of everyone else's. Once you start letting those outside of a company decide what wages to pay (ie, setting prices), you doom that company to failure. Price fixing ALWAYS leads to ruin.

And, most would argue that they already ARE "well-paid". Remove the union members today, let the employer set wages at half of their current level, and I guarantee you that the line of applicants will be around the block to still get those same jobs, including plenty of those same previous employees.

[vette6387]

“The stories that I read claim that money was so good back in those day that the big 3 never balked at those agreements...They never suspected money would ever get short...They deserve some of the blame...As far as other pension, those in charge seem to always spend the money so it’s not there when it’s needed/promised...

As far as the high union wages, I see it about the same as the sports teams...It’s outrageous that a picture can get $35,000 per pitch, but isn’t it just as outrageous that the owners are making so much they can afford to pay it, plus a bunch???

Car makers are making billions in profit, per quarter...Why should the employees not be paid well???”

I can’t argue about the Big 3’s lack of leadership on employee compensation back in the “good times” when there were no foreign competitors and the often turned out substandard products with impunity. But they are going the way of “big steel” whose management failed for too long to rein in compensation/pension benefits that their foreign competitors didn’t have. I read recently that there is as much as a $20.00 per hour differential between what the foreign car companies pay as opposed to the domestic guys. You cannot sustain your business with that kind of a deficit. Ford has stated that they will NEVER build another assembly plant here in this country. My 2013 Avalanche was build in Monterrey, Mexico. So while the UAW has had a good ride for a very long time, it’s just about over whether they like it or not.

I could not agree with you more about sports franchises and what they pay their players. Beyond that, I am really pissed off that they have the temerity to ask the taxpayers to fund and build places for them to use to make obscene money.

As for the carmakers making billions, if they are, that’s news to me. And if they are, they can thank the taxpayers for the “gift of our tax dollars” that put them back in business, while taking nothing from the UAW and screwing the people, who invested in them. So I hope the UAW chokes on their retirement, because they had Obola steal it from folks like me.

One final note. If you don’t think unions have been overall detrimental to our country, I direct your attention to Detroit, a once shining star of a city, now reduced to rubble thanks to unions and blacks.

I had my first job out of Engineering School with Shell Development. We had the OCAW (now the Steelworkers, who having trashed the steel industry have latched on to the oil business). We had pilot plants. I remember vividly the first time I had to have the OCAW “members” remove a transfer pump. Let’s see, we had the pipe fitters disconnecting the plumbing, then there were the electricians who disconnected the wiring, and then there wer the millwrights who showed up to unbolt the thing. Most interestingly, you had to have two of every craft, even though only one was actually needed. And most of the time, all of these “crafts” just stood around drawing a paycheck with their hands in their pockets. Now the beef the USW has with the refineries is that they want to use contract labor instead of this do nothing workforce. Pay contractors when and only when they need them. So the next time you fill up, you can thank your union buddies who are on strike, because three weeks ago we were paying $2.00 a gallon for gas, and now it’s back up at $3.20 thanks to their greed!

[Iscool]

I remember vividly the first time I had to have the OCAW “members” remove a transfer pump. Let’s see, we had the pipe fitters disconnecting the plumbing, then there were the electricians who disconnected the wiring, and then there wer the millwrights who showed up to unbolt the thing. Most interestingly, you had to have two of every craft, even though only one was actually needed. And most of the time, all of these “crafts” just stood around drawing a paycheck with their hands in their pockets.

A lot of that has changed...There is a philosophy behind that tho...It wasn't borne out of greed...Larger companies often figure it's cheaper to have people stand around and do nothing rather that go thru the process of procuring the required skilled help when something major breaks...Downtime can be thousands of dollars per hour...

Another aspect is some of this stuff takes years of training and experience to work on...

I was a Millwright...It was not uncommon to have to wait for an electrician to turn off a machine and then come and check the machine to make sure there was no power to it before I could work on it...

Sometime the main power supply would be 3 stories below and on the opposite side of the shop...Often the electrician would have to get a lift and go up into the ceiling to shut off the buss box...

Sure it wouldn't take much to unbolt the machine but often the machines require precision alignment when hooking back up...

Some of the pipe fitter jobs right at the machine have been passed over to the Millwrights but when a steamline breaks, and they do, you don't want Millwrights up there (they're always on the ceiling), funbling around with pipes when half the shop is down when an experienced pipefitter can do the job in a third the time, and do it right...

[Iscool]

And, most would argue that they already ARE "well-paid". Remove the union members today, let the employer set wages at half of their current level, and I guarantee you that the line of applicants will be around the block to still get those same jobs, including plenty of those same previous employees.

Well you know, that sounds all fine and well but;

I like old cars...The classics from the 50s-60s...I watch car auctions...Just a few years ago, you could watch on tv and think to yourself, hey, that's a sweet Mustang that sold for $25,000 bucks...And I think, maybe I could swing a deal like that...

Just a couple of years later, that same Mustang is going for $100,000-125,000 dollars...That's a dream that has been crushed for me and everyone I know...

I an everyone I know has been knocked out of the middle class...And all these thousands of new millionaires and billionaires think that people like me should be happy with $10.00 per hour...Maybe get a little gov't subsidy to help me survive...

Sorry you feel differently but it's not my day to care...