Remember when Clinton got the CDC involved in gun control politics? The agency now has no credibility IMO. Politics and money has corrupted science. Lawyers buy science in the form of ‘expert witnesses’ and campus radicals have turned climatology into a political movement. Doctors and actors should stick with what they know and stop believing that genius in one specialty translates into universal and omnipotent insight.

“A simple line through it and a big N/A should work. Which will of course be deemed as aggressive and threatening. :>}”

Yeah, the better course is to just be very calm and nice and put in all zeroes. Also did you note who paid for the study? Pfizer! Guess they are doing market research for Prozac.

C'mon, Counselor.

Change of pace, people and locale and maybe the law will regain its appeal!

(Great good luck to you in whatever you choose.)

Charles Heller excellent show America Armed and Free is right now discussing guns and registration.

http://www.kvoi.com/live-stream/

If you are interested, this will be made into a podcast to be found here:
http://www.libertywatchradio.com/recent_shows_

Remember, to own a gun is a right, but if you regulate it through the government it changes into a privilege with the politicos making it an increasingly difficult possession to have.

” “If you have a gun at home, you’re more at risk of gun-related violence.” “

This topic comes up frequently on Free Republic. It always leads to the usual reactions by sane people, and the suggested and expected answers. Please allow me to provide you with the answer that thrashes this subject with an insurmountable argument and tends to leave doctors speechless.

“Let me ask you a question doctor, since one of my biggest concerns is cancer, why I am here talking to you when the foolproof cure is already available? Think not? Listen closely.

According to the highly reputable American Cancer Society, my total chance of dying of some form of cancer if I live long enough is 23%. Yet if I find a woman that has had three previous husbands die of cancer, the odds of her having a fourth husband die of cancer is a number considerably below 1%. All I’ve got to do is become her fourth husband, and my chances of dying of cancer are less than 1%.

Now I’m sitting here putting up with your inane questions because I know NEITHER of those premises are true. I can’t avoid cancer just by who I marry, and I’m no more at risk with a gun in my house. They are both just tricks of statistics and mean nothing. If either were true, they would both be true.

But I must say, that you’ve been taken in so easily by this gibberish does cause me some concern.”

End of questions

Excellent answer.

My question is....would you *really* say that to your doc?

Haven’t had to say it to my doctor, but believe it or not, a dentist asked me about guns. And I did say those exact words to him. I don’t think he liked it too much, but if he thinks owing guns has anything to do with tooth decay, then he deserves it!

I’m heading to Florida in a few and then to Wyoming and then next year to Alaska. We’re having a great time.

We get mandated to have all kinds of bullsh#t on the electronic medical record.

Right. Once it is in there it never goes away. It will follow you to the grave and beyond. That includes conversations and general personal impressions (both physical and psychological) by the doctor as well as stats and treatments. A lot of it you won't even be aware of can be in there.

Now nameless and faceless government bureaucrats have access to all of your information. The big questions are, how will they use it and what will they do with it?

You know what I have been doing?

I cut my address label off my American Rifleman mags and leave a few in the doc/dentists office.

The gun club doesn’t want them b/c they get multiple copies and donations from other members.

Recycling is good, no?

I’ve also been asked whether there was violence in the home, i.e., was I being abused.

Standard question any more. I giggled, as I was high as a kite from the drugs, that the cat walked all over me.

I also asked whether they asked men that question. She changed the subject.

They do.

My husband got asked when his appendix burst and I had to rush him to emergency.

He was also asked if he had a safe place to go when he left the hospital.

That makes PERFECT SENSE. They need data, and if gun owners are STUPID ENOUGH to give themselves away, they deserve to lose their guns.

Make a stop in Montana and we’ll take you out for a nice meal.

Have a wonderful trip!

“If you have a gun at home, you’re more at risk of gun-related violence.”

The most reasonable answer (if the foregoing statement is true) is that people who have guns at home live in neighborhoods that make them more at risk of gun-related violence. It's the neighborhood - not the gun.

Risk Management Advice to Physicians and their Insurers:
Don’t Borrow Trouble

PART-1

By Joe Horn

Since retiring and leaving Law Enforcement, I have been active in Risk Management consulting, a field that has grown rapidly throughout every industry over the past 20 years. Some of the companies I have consulted to for risk management include IBM, Gates Lear jet, National Semiconductor, and Pinkerton International Protection Services.

One of the best games in town is litigation, and litigating against physicians is even more popular than suing gun manufacturers. Physicians and their malpractice insurance carriers are well aware that litigators are constantly looking for new opportunities to sue. Let’s talk about one of those new areas of exposure.

Nowadays, many physicians and other health care providers are engaging in the very risky, well intentioned, but naive and politically inspired business of asking their patients about ownership, maintenance and storage of firearms in the home. Some could argue that this is a “boundary violation,” and it probably is, but there is another very valid reason why these professionals should NOT engage in this practice -- MASSIVE LIABILITY.

Physicians are licensed and certified in the practice of medicine, the treatment of illnesses and injuries, and in preventative activities. They may advise or answer questions about those issues. However, when physicians give advice about firearms safety in the home, without certification in that field, and without physically INSPECTING that particular home and those particular firearms, they are functioning outside the practice of medicine. Furthermore, if they fail to review the gamut of safety issues in the home, such as those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, and on and on, well, you get the drift. A litigator could easily accuse that physician of being NEGLIGENT for not covering whichever one of those things that ultimately led to the death or injury of a child or any one in the family or even a visitor to the patient’s home.

To engage in Home Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk Management and to concentrate on one small politically correct area, i.e., firearms to the neglect of ALL of the other safety issues in the modern home, is to invite a lawsuit because the safety counselor Knew, Could have known or SHOULD have known that there were other dangers to the occupants of that house more immediate than firearms. Things like swimming pools, buckets of water, and chemicals in homes are involved in the death or injury of many more children than accidental firearms discharge [ Source: CDC.] Firearms are a statistically small, nearly negligible fraction of the items involved in home injuries. Physicians SHOULD know that. So, why all of a sudden do some physicians consider themselves to be firearms safety experts? Where is their concern for all the other safety issues that they DON'T cover with their patients?

Once physicians start down this path of home safety counseling, they are completely on their own. A review of their medical malpractice insurance will reveal that if they engage in an activity for which they are not certified, the carrier will not cover them if (or when) they get sued.

Consider a physician asking the following questions of his or her malpractice insurance carrier:

1. One of my patients is suing me for NOT warning them that furniture polish was poisonous and their child drank it and died. I only warned them about firearms, drugs and alcohol. Am I covered for counseling patients about firearms safety while not mentioning and giving preventative advice about all the other dangers in the home, and doing so without formal training or certification in any aspect of home safety risk management? You know their answer.

2. How much training and certification do I need to become a Home Safety Expert Doctor? They will tell you that you are either a pediatrician or you are the National Safety Council. But, you don't have certification to do the National Safety Council’s job for them.

Homeowners and parents are civilly or criminally responsible for the safety or lack thereof in their homes. My advice to physicians is to not borrow trouble by presuming to be able to dispense safety advice outside your area of expertise: the practice of medicine. Your insurance carrier will love you if you simply treat injuries and illnesses, dispense advice on how to care for sick or injured persons, manage sanitation problems and try to prevent disease, but stay out of the Risk Management business unless you are trained and certified to do it.

Joe Horn 6th Mesa Risk Management, Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, Retired

PART - II

Physicians, Don’t borrow trouble, Part II by Joe Horn

Last time (Part I) we discussed:

the Risk Management issues involved in counseling patients about firearms home safety, and the liability issues involved with lack of certification and training of Physicians in Home Safety or Firearms Safety.

Now we'll discuss:

the very serious issues involving the lawful possession and use of firearms in the home, and the danger and liabilities associated with advising patients to severely encumber the firearm(s) with locked storage, or advising the patient to remove them entirely.

Patient X is told by Doctor Y to remove or lock up a firearm so it is not accessible. Patient X, does as counseled and has no firearm available at close-hand. Subsequently, patient is then the victim of a home invasion and calls 911, but the police are buried in calls and don’t arrive for 20 minutes during which time Patient X is raped, robbed and murdered. Anyone can see the liability issue here, particularly Risk Management specialists and liability insurance carriers.

It’s just a matter of when and not if this will happen, God forbid, but it will - if a home invasion takes place and Patient X takes Doctor Y's advice.

Now, imagine what follows this horrendous event. Who is to blame? The perpetrator is long gone, and even so, the Plaintiff’s litigator will state that the perpetrator could have been neutralized by the appropriate defensive use of a firearm, which was no longer available to the deceased/injured because he/she followed a Physician’s advice to render him/herself defenseless against violent crime.

The Litigator will further argue that the Physician Knew, Could have known, Should have known that removing a firearm from use for home defense would result in harm to the patient if and when a crime was committed against the patient in the home.

Physicians are already under incredible pressure from Liability and Malpractice carriers to limit their exposure, and Malpractice rates are staggeringly high. So, why borrow trouble?

If one acknowledges the already dangerous general liability of home safety counseling and then adds the very risky practice of advising patients to disarm themselves in the face of the reality of violent crime daily perpetrated against home owners and apartment tenants, it is apparent that the Physician is placing him/herself in a very risky position for suit.

It is my strong recommendation to Malpractice Carriers and those Physicians they insure to strictly avoid this high risk practice and reserve counseling for the area of expertise in which they are certified: Medicine. In my professional opinion, this is an emotionally charged political issue that Physicians and their Carriers should not be manipulated for whatever well-intentioned reason into taking the risk, which is considerable......

Physicians in doubt of the veracity of what I’ve said are encouraged to call their carriers and ask them what they currently cover, and to ask if this new counseling policy is covered under the existing policy. We already know what they will say: Don’t borrow trouble.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FIREARMS SAFETY COUNSELING REPRESENTATION: PHYSICIAN QUALIFICATIONS AND LIABILITY

Part One: Qualifications I affirm that I am certified to offer (Name of Patient:________________________________________ ),
hereinafter
referred to as “the Patient”, qualified advice about firearms safety in the home, having received:
Specify Course(s) of Study:_____________________________
from:
Specify Institution(s):_________________________________
on:
Specify Course Completion Date(s):
________________________________________________________
resulting in:
Specify Accreditation(s), Certification(s), License(s) etc.:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ .

Check one, as appropriate:

_______ I represent that I have reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership. I further represent that I have reviewed all other relevant home safety issues with the Patient, including those relating to electricity, drains, disposals, compactors, garage doors, driveway safety, pool safety, pool fence codes and special locks for pool gates, auto safety, gas, broken glass, stored cleaning chemicals, buckets, toilets, sharp objects, garden tools, home tools, power tools, lawnmowers, lawn chemicals, scissors, needles, forks, knives, etc. I also acknowledge, by receiving this document, I have been made aware that, in his inaugural address before the American Medical Association on June 20, 2001, new president Richard Corlin, MD, admitted “What we don't know about violence and guns is literally killing us ... researchers do not have the data to tell how kids get guns, if trigger locks work, what the warning signs of violence in schools and at the workplace are and other critical questions due to lack of research funding.” (UPI). In spite of this admission, I represent that I have sufficient data and expertise to provide expert and clinically sound advice to patients regarding firearms in the home.

OR

______ I am knowingly engaging in Home/Firearms Safety Counseling without certification, license or formal training in Risk Management, and; I have not reviewed applicable scientific literature pertaining to defensive gun use and beneficial results of private firearms ownership.

Part Two: Liability I have determined, from a review of my medical malpractice insurance, that if I engage in an activity for which I am not certified, such as Firearms Safety Counseling, the carrier (check one, as appropriate):

_______ WILL
_______ WILL NOT

cover lawsuits resulting from neglect, lack of qualification, etc.

Insurance Carrier name, address and policy number insuring me for firearms safety expertise:
_______________________________________________________

I further warrant that, should the Patient follow my firearm safety counseling and remove from the home and/or disable firearms with trigger locks or other mechanisms, and if the patient or a family member, friend or visitor is subsequently injured or killed as a result of said removal or disabling, that my malpractice insurance and/or personal assets will cover all actual and punitive damages resulting from a lawsuit initiated by the patient, the patient's legal representative, or the patient's survivors.

Signature of attesting physician and date:__________________/_____/ 2015____________________

Name of attesting physician (please print):_________________________________________________

Signature of patient and date:__________________/_____/ 2015____________________

Name of patient (please print):_________________________________________________

Patient: Indicate if physician “REFUSED TO SIGN.” Have physician place a copy in your chart/medical record.