Not much to discuss if you guys set the ground rules that NATO doesn’t actually exist, if that is the case, then you have nothing to worry about.
The issue is does the West surrender in advance, or supply weapons to Ukraine to keep Russia from continuing to conquer new territory.
You guys want to surrender in advance, and face the future that will lead to.
Then why not just say it if you believe it. Do you really think the Dutch society, the German society, the Czech society, the Italian and Spanish societies,,, are ready to send their armies to go fight a shooting war, in eastern Ukraine, in the same place the Germans invaded and mass murdered their way through?
You dance all around it with NATO talk, but do you think those nations actually want any part of refighting the eastern front of WWII?
Remember, NATO was a defensive alliance. Or more accurately, an alliance designed to ensure we always will defend them from external attack.