Why we lost Afghanistan

americanthinker.com ^ | 2/1/2015 | Pedro Gonzales

[schurmann]

We neither lost nor won.

Just like we did in southeast Asia, we walked away from it, when our attention span was exceeded. We had better look to our own inner selves for an answer to that one.

[okie01]

We lost because our intervention wasn’t an extinction event for the tribes that supported Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
When neighbors who support our enemies suddenly, violently, and very thoroughly disappear, it sends a message that cannot be ignored.

Our Afghanistan strategy should've been to enlist every competing tribesman and mercilessly hunt down and kill each and every Taliban and al-Qaeda in the country -- paying handsomely for their scalps, ears, fingers or balls.

Upon their extermination, we leave -- posting a message that, if any of the surviving tribes should get the idea to host an enemy of ours, we'll be back.

Which is to say: We are in total agreement.

[CodeToad]

We have barracks lawyer liberal type here on FR that think the JAG/Lawyer corps should set the Rules of Engagement (ROE) that we have in Afghanistan that caused the losses.

They think war is a civil court procedure subject to legal interpretations of actions. The fell for the “war crimes” crap and think soldiers in war should be supervised by lawyers that tell them when they can and cannot shoot at the enemy and who the enemy is.

[Paid_Russian_Troll]

First reason is it wasn’t a war fought to win. What were objectives to start with?
Second reason is Afghanistan lacks a single thing worth to hold a foot there.
I wouldn’t call it a loss in any military sense though.

[Rockingham]

Correct. In the 1960s, the children of US diplomats safely went unescorted on the streets of Kabul. Afghan women were schooled at the university level in Western dress.

Then Khomeni and the Iranian revolution toppled the Shah in Iran, thereby spurring the rise of fundamentalist Islam throughout the Muslim world. The Russian invasion of Afghanistan and ensuing insurgency then helped shatter and radicalize traditional Afghan society along Islamist lines.

Today, despite the failure of the Western development effort to fully take hold, Afghanis continue to hate the Taliban and like the improvements in life that the US and the West brought. Indeed, polling shows that Afghani optimism for their national future is consistently above 60 per cent -- which makes them far more optimistic than Americans.

[Jim Noble]

Afghanis continue to hate the Taliban and like the improvements in life that the US and the West brought. Indeed, polling shows that Afghani optimism for their national future is consistently above 60 per cent -- which makes them far more optimistic than Americans

Too bad the laws of war don't follow opinion polls.

[Jim Noble]

Our Afghanistan strategy should've been to enlist

India in a joint expeditionary force to conquer and subjugate Pakistan, which is the main theater enemy, while we enlisted Iraq into a joint expeditionary force to conquer and subjugate the Arabian peninsula, after putting the entire al-Saud family to the sword, because THAT is the enemy Main Body and center of gravity.

[Sheapdog]

I believe I read yesterday America’s involvement in Afghanistan is now to be rated top secret! ; preventing any future Benghazi’s. I hate to say that our dear leader is setting himself up to be a dictator. A year from now how much more power will he have and what opposition will there be?

[maine-iac7]

Forget all the gobbledy goop - we had the war all but won - then we let Binny go when we had him cornered at Tora Bora -

then the Tallies got a BIG break. they got their friend and benefactor into the White Hut.

Right out of the gate, he installed his new ROE - which tied our soldiers hands, giving the enemy first shot - i.e., our soldiers couldn’t shoot (defend) until the enemy shot first.

This resulted in a TRIPLING of our KIA’s and the press, who were heretofore filming Every casket coming back - were silent.

THEN, the muzzie in the White Hut began, systematically, gifting the tallies with hard won/hard sacrificed firebases - just pulled our troops without a fight and making them leaving caches of weapons behind, which the Tallies promised to use to kill our troops. And they kept that promise.

AFter all their sacrifices - bast*rd.

Here’s one of the first firebases he turned over - the ‘Tip of the Spear’ base that kept the Tallies from filtering down from Pakistan into Kabul -

You don’t EVEN want to know the truth of all of it. Especially today - SUPERBOWL!

April 2010 - a gift to O’bumbles Brothers - link below

If you ever wanted to take a bit of time to see what our Sky Soldiers did on that outpost - watch Sebastian Junger’s award winning docs: “Restrepo” and “Korengal” (I wonder how many of you will bother? No, I really don’t. Y’all have other things to do. Heaven forbid you miss a showing of DAncing With the Stars. (You certainly didn’t bother when I was posting about all this in real time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WamBeYQeRvE

Lotta blood on hands in the White Hut - pure and simple. And on the hands of the media and others who didn’t do due diligence...(includes J Q Public)\.Sins of omission.

Y’all have a nice day now...

[Moltke]

Second reason is Afghanistan lacks a single thing worth to hold a foot there.

Other than the reported $1 trillion worth or so of mineral deposits, Troll.

Of which, of course, the Western countries fighting there will never see a single dime. China must be laughing its ass off, just waiting to swoop in...

[Jim Noble]

Forget all the gobbledy goop - we had the war all but won - then we let Binny go when we had him cornered at Tora Bora - then the Tallies got a BIG break. they got their friend and benefactor into the White Hut.

Bin Laden was identified positively at Tora Bora on December 6, 2001. On that day - right here - I advocated for taking the top 2000 feet off those mountains with W-88 warheads, and I believe today as much as ever that, had Bush done so, this war would have ended within weeks.

"Obama" was inaugurated 2,602 days later. "Obama" was able to come to power because of the extraordinary fecklessness, stupidity, and cowardice demonstrated by our national command authority during all 62,448 hours of those wasted 2,602 days.

From insane ROEs, to installing puppet governments whose writ did not run beyond the nearest American soldiers, to the failed strategies of 1965-72 including what amounted to strategic hamlets and fire bases with search and destroy missions - My God, the enormous waste and the unbearable losses make me want to puke.

The Taliban DID catch a break, as you say, when their friend and benefactor captured the US Presidency, but our failure to win the war over all those years between December 2001 and January 2009 had nothing to do with that. With regard to the Taliban on Pennsylvania Avenue, you are confusing cause and effect.

[Paid_Russian_Troll]

Rich mineral deposits are of little to none value, unless there are decent environment around to extract and profit from it.
Africa is a perfect example.
China is doing better than the rest of the world in Africa though, so you might have a point about about Chinese in Afghanistan. It could make a milestone for the Chinese in their quest into a Persian Gulf, too.

[Paid_Russian_Troll]

‘Brzezinski’s Interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, January, 1998:

Le Nouvel Observateur: Former CIA director Robert Gates states in his memoirs: The American secret services began six months before the Soviet intervention to support the Mujahideen [in Afghanistan]. At that time you were president Carters security advisor; thus you played a key role in this affair. Do you confirm this statement?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version, the CIA’s support for the Mujahideen began in 1980, i.e. after the Soviet army’s invasion of Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. But the reality, which was kept secret until today, is completely different: Actually it was on 3 July 1979 that president Carter signed the first directive for the secret support of the opposition against the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And on the same day I wrote a note, in which I explained to the president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military intervention by the Soviets.

Le Nouvel Observateur: Despite this risk you were a supporter of this covert action? But perhaps you expected the Soviets to enter this war and tried to provoke it?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: It’s not exactly like that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene but we knowingly increased the probability that they would do it.

Le Nouvel Observateur: When the Soviets justified their intervention with the statement that they were fighting against a secret US interference in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. Nevertheless there was a core of truth to this...Do you regret nothing today?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Regret what? This secret operation was an excellent idea. It lured the Russians into the Afghan trap, and you would like me to regret that? On the day when the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote president Carter, in essence: “We now have the opportunity to provide the USSR with their Viet Nam war.” Indeed for ten years Moscow had to conduct a war that was intolerable for the regime, a conflict which involved the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet Empire.

Le Nouvel Observateur: And also, don’t you regret having helped future terrorists, having given them weapons and advice?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: What is most important for world history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? Some Islamic hotheads or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Le Nouvel Observateur: “Some hotheads?” But it has been said time and time again: today Islamic fundamentalism represents a world-wide threat...

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Rubbish! It’s said that the West has a global policy regarding Islam. That’s hogwash: there is no global Islam. Let’s look at Islam in a rational and not a demagogic or emotional way. It is the first world religion with 1.5 billion adherents. But what is there in common between fundamentalist Saudi Arabia, moderate Morocco, militaristic Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt and secularized Central Asia? Nothing more than that which connects the Christian countries...’

[Rockingham]

Afghanistan has ever been part of the Great Game, a nuisance and a burden when an ally, and beaten but never fully conquered. When Russia invaded, an older friend showed me a traditional Afghan rifle that he had bought there while in the Air Force just after WW II.

As he explained, such a rifle, which was like a Kentucky long rifle, was the traditional gift from father to son that marked the beginning adulthood. My friend had no doubt that the Russians would lose because the Afghans liked to fight and simply would not quit.