Posted on 01/05/2015 7:18:57 AM PST by fishtank
Following the first successful launch and flight of a prototype A4 (V2), Walter Dornberger supposedly turned to Von Braun and congratulated him.
Von Braun was said to have muttered under his breath "It a pity we hit the wrong planet."
Regards,
GtG
This is not true. Military officers were not obligated to join the party.
Von Braun was saved from the Nuremberg Trials by Operation Paperclip", not by his innocence. Von Braun was fully aware of the mistreatment of Jewish slaves in his V2 plants, and had the power to alleviate their misery. He did not. Albert Speers ordered an increase in the slaves daily rations while on a visit to the underground facilities with Von Braun.
“This is not true. Military officers were not obligated to join the party.”
Not only were military officers not all obligated to join the NAZI Party (NSDAP), it was actually illegal for a member of the military and naval services to join any political party,...until Hitler and the NAZIs overthrew and seized control of the German Government.
So, you are making a false strawman argument. The source did not say “Military officers were...obligated to join the party....” The source said his service with the Luftwaffe Reserve obligated him to accept membership in the NAZI Party. What the source is talking about are the special circumstances Wernher von Braun encountered due to his earning his civil aviation pilot’s license in 1933.
The new NAZI government seized control of all civil aviation organizations immediately upon seizing control of the German Government in 1933 and reorganized them under NAZI control as the German Air Sports Association (Deutscher Luftsportverband, or DLV e. V.). Goering used this control of German civil aviation to discourage or strongly limit access to German civil aviation activities, except for those persons who would agree to volunteer to join the NAZI social and educational activities. This was one of the reasons why Wernher von Braun was influenced to join the SS Riding Club at the university where he was undertaking his post-graduate degree studies leading to his role in the research and development of rocketry.
German aviators were often recruited from the German nobility associated with the German cavalry. Wernher von Braun’s aristocratic family connections were of this general background, so the NAZI’s were attempting to use their influence towards bringing many of these young men into their organizations for political indoctrination. Wernher von Braun made the costly mistake of believing he could join the SS riding school long enough to earn his civil pilot’s license and then resign from the organization without further obligation when he completed his post-graduate degree.
Instead, the German Air Sports Association (Deutscher Luftsportverband, or DLV e. V.) was organized by the NAZI regime in 1933 to control all private civil aviation activities, and the Luftwaffe was reestablished in 1935 also under the command and control of Goering. Consequently, all of Wernher von Braun’s civil aviation activities and his pilot’s license were subject to the NAZI control of the German Air Sports Association.
The Luftwaffe was subsequently reformed by Goering in 1935. Unlike other people who may have been able to await a draft notice into the Wehrmacht, Wernher von Braun was required to choose a military service branch to fulfill his military service obligation and continue his work in the German Army’s rocketry research alongside Willy Ley and Hermann Oberth. According to the source, it appears Wernher von Braun chose the Luftwaffe Reserve to satisfy his military service obligation.
On 15 April 1937 the German Air Sports Association was abolished by the NAZI German government and replaced with the National Socialist Flyers Corps (NSFK). Being a German civil aviator, Wernher von Braun was thereby obligated to be a member of the German Air Sports Association and it successor, the National Socialist Flyers Corps (NSFK). Members of the National Socialist Flyers Corps (NSFK) were required to have NAZI membership. So, it was not long after the German Air Sports Association was abolished that he was obligated to maintain his membership in the new National Socialist Flyers Corps (NSFK) and related support for his Luftwaffe Reserve position by requesting membership in the NAZI Party (NSDAP) on 12 November 1937.
The next complication occurred when Wernher von Braun was ordered by Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler to rejoin the Allgemeine SS with his old date of rank in 1934 reinstated. He tried to decline the order to rejoin the SS, but the SS Colonel who delivered Himmler’s order insisted the invitation was Himmler’s wish. Wernher von Braun stalled for time to see what if anything Dornberger and the Army could do to avoid Himmler’s invitation to rejoin the SS, but their replies pretty much amounted to saying Himmler’s invitation was the kind of offer which could not be refused due to the potential severe consequences that would ensue for Wernher von Braun, the Army’s project, family, and any associates. So, he found that he was obligated to rejoin the SS in 1940 after believing he was going to be able to resign from the SS in 1934.
Note, Wernher von Braun’s situation was different than many other later members of the Luftwaffe, which is why some Luftwaffe officers were obligated to be members of the NAZI Party (NSDAP), while many others were not. In later years membership in the SS was strictly limited, so many Luftwaffe officers could not join the SS even if they had wanted to.
“Von Braun was saved from the Nuremberg Trials by Operation Paperclip”, not by his innocence.”
That is a grossly false statement. Wernher von Braun did not commit any acts which would have made him subject to prosecution at the International Military Tribunals (IMT) at Nuremberg. Furthermore, there were many SS officers who were proven to have been responsible for some of the SS activities who were acquitted of criminal charges by the IMT. So, this over the top assertion by you is ludicrous by comparison to the historical prosecutions of members of the SS.
“Von Braun was fully aware of the mistreatment of Jewish slaves in his V2 plants, and had the power to alleviate their misery. He did not.”
More over the top fantasy accusations from you which are completely contrary to the truth. SS General Hans Kammler was in command of those facilities. He or one of his junior subordinate officers had the authority and certainly would have executed Wernher von Braun on the spot had they been motivated to do so by any acts or statements by Wernher von Braun protesting conditions.
Many of the Jewish concentration camp slaves served as overseers of their fellow slaves, could have ameliorated some conditions for their fellow victims, and did not to improve their own chances for survival. As bad as their circumstances were, they often had more opportunity to help the slave laborers than Wernher von Braun could have done so. In one report it was reported Wernher von Braun said, “It is hellish. My spontaneous reaction was to talk to one of the SS guards, only to be told with unmistakable harshness that I should mind my own business, or find myself in the same striped fatigues! ... I realized that any attempt of reasoning on humane grounds would be utterly futile.” “When asked if von Braun could have protested against the brutal treatment of the slave laborers, von Braun team member Konrad Dannenberg told The Huntsville Times, ‘If he had done it, in my opinion, he would have been shot on the spot.’”
“Albert Speers ordered an increase in the slaves daily rations while on a visit to the underground facilities with Von Braun.”
Albert Speer was Minister of Armaments and War Production for the Third Reich, a member of Hitler’s Third Reich cabinet of ministers, and Hitler’s right-hand man. Speer vastly outranked SS General Hans Kammler, yet even Speer had to be careful not to antagonize SS Reichsfuehrer Himmler without using the effects upon war production as an excuse. By comparison Wernher von Braun was a virtual nobody except for his usefulness to the NAZI regime as a rocket engineer. Even that small distinction was not enough to keep him from being arrested by the SS for two weeks, with the distinct possibility he was to be imprisoned or executed if Himmler and the SS did not get what they wanted from the Army and from Wernher von Braun. This nonsense that Wernher von Braun had the authority to alleviate the conditions of the slave laborers without lethal consequences to the slave laborers he attempted to help, himself, his co-workers, and their families is simply quite ludicrous and false.
I have read details regarding Speers. He was an interesting fellow in his own right. Himmler was a piece of work, where "work" has a distinct brownish hue. Those were interesting times, but quite horrifying to see what the human race can degrade into within a short time.
“Please send me references to the Von Braun history is you are so inclined.”
A lot of the background is from memory. It has been some 50 plus years since I was reading the biographies. I still have one of the books from 50 years ago, but it’s in a storage box buried in somewhere in storage where I haven’t seen it for the past 25 years. As I recall, there has always been a tug of war between the biographers who have lauded the man’s reputation and the critics who have labored to hold the man in ill repute for his role in the war. This prompted a lot of reading to learn more about the truth of the allegations pro and con.
Having read much about the criticisms, I was cautiously hopeful to learn more about the case when I had the privilege of serving as a host for Jesco von Puttkamer and some of his NASA colleagues at a conference. He was kind enough to answer some of my questions without taking offense. He was the source who alerted me to the problems Wernher von Braun and some of the other German rocket scientists faced when Hitler’s NAZI regime seized control off all private civilian aviation organizations.
Ever since then I have been irritated when I have seen critics cite the NAZI membership without also acknowledging the role of the NAZIs in controlling certain activities relating to aviation and never ending efforts to also take control of all rocketry activities as well. It seemed obvious that any responsibility Wernher von Braun could have had with respect to the victims of the NAZI slave labor would have to be established separately from the SS and NAZI activities that were clearly not necessarily voluntary or representative of the man’s personal viewpoints and actions. So far, it appears such credible evidence has not been forthcoming.
In addition to the such laudatory biographers as Frederick I. Ordway III, I also checked the FBI Reports published by the Huntsville Times. There is a multi-part series on the topic online from the Huntsville Times, IIRC.
To refresh my memory for this post I checked some of the Wikipedia articles to confirm some various points. With respect to the culpability for the slave labor at the Mittelwerk, see the Wikipedia articles for such topics as the Mittelwerk civilian manager and his trial, Georg Rickhey. More broadly, see the Dora Trial article. Note the various convictions and acquittals ranging from the SS officers to the prisoner Kapos. Also note how SS-Hauptsturmführer Heinrich Schmidt was not prosecuted and served as a witness in the trial.
Ultimately it appears that only Wernher von Brauna and Magnus von Braun were privy to their thoughts, attitudes, and actions towards the slave labor. Unless some previously unknown documentation turns up someday, such information seems to have died with them. What we are left with then are their actions subsequent to the war.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am now motivated enough to dig into Von Braun’s biography in order to learn his true history. As I mentioned before, I have always admired him. I am also now reading the documentation regarding the development of the Saturn V and Apollo. That is quite a saga. It is perfectly clear that our space program would not have amounted to much without Von Braun.
“It is perfectly clear that our space program would not have amounted to much without Von Braun.”
Not necessarily in an alternate timeline. Wernher von Braun would never have amounted to much of anything had it not been for Robert Goddard. If Robert Goddard had succumbed to tuberculosis before 1912, Wernher von Braun and his team would not have had Robert Goddard’s liquid-fueled rocket patents and advice to save years of research in the development of the rocket engines. instead, Hitler would have canceled funding for Dornberger and von Braun long before the A-4 (V-2) could have made its first test flight.
Without Robert Goddard’s inventions in rocketry to provide a time-saving means of completing the A-4 (V-2) rockets, there would have been no A-4 (V-2) rockets to capture and no A-4 (V-2) rocket teams to supplant the already existing domestic rocketry research teams of the United States and Soviet Union. If the United States would then have funded its own domestic rocketry engineers, then the United States could still have created its own successful space program without Robert Goddard’s prior inventions and without the assistance of Wernher von Braun and his German rocket team, albeit much later in the historical timeline.
Without Robert Goddard’s inventions, the lack of captured German rockets and rocket engineers would have setback Soviet Russia’s rocketry and space programs by many years, unless their spies succeeded in stealing the American designs at early dates. In the absence of such Soviet Russian rocketry and the ICBM threats they posed, there likely would never have been a manned space race to the Moon with the Soviet Russians. Instead, there would have likely been a much slower paced development of manned space flight with the Soviet Russians prodding the American government to grudgingly fund responses to the Soviet Russian efforts.
Without Robert Goddard, Jack Parsons, and Wernher von Braun, and others, our historical manned space flight accomplishments would not have occurred when and how they did occur.
See the Wikipedia articles and other works about Robert Goddard and Jack Parsons, and note what Wernher von Braun had to say about them.
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