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9TH ARMY LASHES OUT ON THE COLOGNE PLAIN; 13 ENEMY SHIPS, 4,000 ABOARD, SUNK OFF LEYTE (11/30/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 11/30/44 | Drew Middleton, Gene Currivan, Frederick Graham, Milton Bracker, Harold Callender, Raymond Daniell

Posted on 11/30/2014 4:55:51 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson

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To: fso301

Thanks for posting - that’s quite a story! I had not realized that Seventh-Day Adventists’ beliefs were opposed to fighting.


21 posted on 11/30/2014 9:04:14 AM PST by Tax-chick (R.I.P., Dad, 11/25/14. Thanks for the lawyers, guns, and money.)
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To: Tax-chick
Thanks for posting - that’s quite a story! I had not realized that Seventh-Day Adventists’ beliefs were opposed to fighting.

SDAs and JWs were persecuted heavily by the Nazis.

22 posted on 11/30/2014 9:24:16 AM PST by fso301
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To: Tax-chick; alfa6

I wonder if Mr. Kinman’s descendants know about the N.Y. Times coverage. Maybe we could track them down and let them know about it. It is possible they don’t even know about the tracheotomy incident. I tried a facebook search but no luck. And now I have to leave for brunch with F-I-L.


23 posted on 11/30/2014 9:27:26 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

By fighting this series of engagements in Ormoc Bay, the U.S. Navy was eventually able to prevent the Japanese from further resupplying and reinforcing their troops on Leyte, contributing significantly to the victory in the land battle. The final tally of ships lost in Ormoc Bay is: U.S. — three destroyers, one high speed transport, and two LSMs; Japan — six destroyers, 20 small transports, one submarine, one patrol boat and three escort vessels.

Historian Irwin J. Kappes argued that naval historians have unjustly neglected the importance of these engagements, writing:

“In the end, it was the rather amorphous Battle of Ormoc Bay that finally brought Leyte and the entire Gulf area under firm Allied control. From 11 November 1944 until 21 December, the combined efforts of Third Fleet carrier planes, Marine fighter-bomber groups, a pincer movement by the Army’s 77th Division and the First Division plus a motley assortment of destroyers, amphibious ships and PT boats trounced the now semi-isolated Japanese in a series of skirmishes and night raids. And because of poor weather conditions air support for most of these surface actions was almost non-existent.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ormoc_Bay


24 posted on 11/30/2014 10:16:31 AM PST by EternalVigilance (Polling: The art of finding out if the public was suckered sufficiently by your last poll.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
I wonder if Mr. Kinman’s descendants know about the N.Y. Times coverage.

There appears to be a good amount of coverage from the era but who knows if descendants are aware of it?

See page 6 article Battlefield Surgeon http://docs.adventistarchives.org/docs/ST/ST19450123-V72-04__B.pdf

25 posted on 11/30/2014 11:03:15 AM PST by fso301
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

They know. There have been recent posting of WW II coverage of the incident.

“This story comes from the 11 December 1944 issue of Time magazine and is titled “Medicine: Well, I’ll Be Damned.” A similar article was also printed in the Newsweek published the same date. “

http://wwii-letters-to-wilma.blogspot.com/2011/12/11-december-1944.html


26 posted on 11/30/2014 11:20:05 AM PST by Steven Scharf
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To: fso301
SDAs and JWs were persecuted heavily by the Nazis.

And the Communists. A book I read by a survivor of Communist prison camps in Romania said that they always knew when it was Saturday, because the SDAs would refuse to work, and the guards would beat them.

27 posted on 11/30/2014 11:55:08 AM PST by Tax-chick (R.I.P., Dad, 11/25/14. Thanks for the lawyers, guns, and money.)
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To: Tax-chick
And the Communists. A book I read by a survivor of Communist prison camps in Romania said that they always knew when it was Saturday, because the SDAs would refuse to work, and the guards would beat them.

Sabbatarian Christians are fairly well known for refusal to work on Saturday. Less well known are the non-Sabatarian Christians who refused Sunday work.

I remember reading of a German boy who was the son of an innkeeper. Sometime late in the war, a German army unit set up headquarters in the family inn. The commanding officer ordered the son to operate the phone system. The boy refused stating it was Sunday and he wouldn't work on Sunday. The boy was taken out and shot.

28 posted on 11/30/2014 12:47:43 PM PST by fso301
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To: Steven Scharf
They know. There have been recent posting of WW II coverage of the incident.

I imagine you are right. The photo on your link will appear in one of my posts sometime soon. I don't remember exactly what day, but soon.

29 posted on 11/30/2014 1:47:32 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Steven Scharf; Homer_J_Simpson; fso301; Tax-chick; henkster; EternalVigilance; alfa6
Up on Kilay Ridge with Clifford's Battalion, 1/34th Inf., reinforcements have arrived in the form of the 2nd Bn., 128th Inf. They have been deployed to forcibly restore communications with C Company, which had been cut off. C Company is now resupplied and reinforced. They are winning the main battle with the Japanese.

Also, the Battalion's Thanksgiving rations, including fresh eggs, finally made it up the Ridge!

30 posted on 11/30/2014 3:13:37 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The German sector around Aachen. I've read "The Siegfried Line Campaign," which is the volume of the U.S. Army Official History for this battle, but I didn't get the sense that the offensive in this area was the major undertaking it appears to be. And it also appears the Germans have staked a lot of their their strength on stopping it. Not all of it, though.

30 Nov 44 Aachen photo 30Nov44Aachen_zpsf1f37c9b.jpg

The German map for Lorraine. But for mud (too much) and gasoline(not enough), this would be much worse for the Germans.

30 Nov 44 Aachen photo 30Nov44Aachen_zpsf1f37c9b.jpg

The Colmar Pocket in Alsace:

30 Nov 44 Alsace photo 30Nov44Alsace_zps54a0614c.jpg

31 posted on 11/30/2014 3:33:03 PM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; Tax-chick; alfa6

“Foxhole Surgeon” - Love these kinds of heroic stories. Also love the way the newspapers actually reported such heroism in such detail. Look forward to seeing the re-run 0f the story.


32 posted on 11/30/2014 3:46:04 PM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: henkster; PapaNew

I can feel the cold and damp and smell the mud just looking at those maps. (I’ve been on some ghastly campouts.)


33 posted on 11/30/2014 3:48:46 PM PST by Tax-chick (R.I.P., Dad, 11/25/14. Thanks for the lawyers, guns, and money.)
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To: Tax-chick

Well, I don’t know. War is hell, but camping out is supposed to fun... :)


34 posted on 11/30/2014 3:55:58 PM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: Steven Scharf; Tax-chick; alfa6; fso301; PapaNew
The photo on your link will appear in one of my posts sometime soon. I don't remember exactly what day, but soon.

Found it. December 9.

35 posted on 11/30/2014 3:57:14 PM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Tax-chick
I’ve been on some ghastly campouts.

You mean you've camped out without marshmallows?

36 posted on 11/30/2014 4:29:34 PM PST by fso301
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To: PapaNew; fso301

The problem is that you have to plan your campout long before you know the weather forecast. Sort of like a war.


37 posted on 11/30/2014 4:41:40 PM PST by Tax-chick (R.I.P., Dad, 11/25/14. Thanks for the lawyers, guns, and money.)
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To: Tax-chick
The problem is that you have to plan your campout long before you know the weather forecast. Sort of like a war.

I have experienced the joy of tent leaks and of sleeping directly on the ground inside a tent situated on level ground that a rainstorm revealed to be in a depression of sorts.

38 posted on 11/30/2014 5:28:24 PM PST by fso301
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To: henkster
The German sector around Aachen. I've read "The Siegfried Line Campaign," which is the volume of the U.S. Army Official History for this battle, but I didn't get the sense that the offensive in this area was the major undertaking it appears to be. And it also appears the Germans have staked a lot of their their strength on stopping it. Not all of it, though.

The need to keep the area solid for the upcoming "Wacht am Rhein," yet still husband units earmarked for that offensive asked a lot of the Germans involved in the Aachen/Huertgen/Roer approaches battles; they were able to accomplish this to a surprising degree.

Not to disparage Charles MacDonald's work - he did yeoman work as a historian in addition to having been a combat veteran - but IMO, some of the more interesting books that give a picture of what was endured in the Battle(s) of Aachen/Huertgen/Roer River are either German or based on German sources, particularly ones that depart from "the larger picture" works. Hold the Westwall and Victory Was Beyond Their Grasp are both Wehrmacht-centric, but give a good idea of what the GI was facing.

Mr. niteowl77

39 posted on 11/30/2014 6:15:04 PM PST by niteowl77 (The five stages of Progressive persuasion: lecture, nudge, shove, arrest, liquidate.)
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To: PapaNew

I was in the scouts for 5 years. It rained/stormed every time we went camping. It stormed every time we slept in the woods when I was in the Army training. I have stood guard at night in the Delta south of Saigon during the Monsoon. Mud is no fun.


40 posted on 11/30/2014 6:21:49 PM PST by Ecliptic (.)
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