UKRAINE: "This war...perhaps the beginning of our recent human history" Anatoly Kalyuzhniy

http://risu.org.ua/ua/index/expert_thought/interview/57007/ ^ | July 10, 2014, 10:54 | Tatiana MUHOMOROVA

[UMCRevMom@aol.com]

Anatoly Kalyuzhniy: "This war - it is not only the beginning of the end of Putin, and perhaps the beginning of our recent human history"

Interviewed by Tatiana MUHOMOROVA

Kaliuzhnyj.jpgPodiyi Square and risky negotiations with the government leaders of the Church have been left behind, giving way to an armed conflict in the East. However, the mission of the Church is only compounded, since religious organizations are trying to help the people during such hardships that have befallen the country. On the prospects of service on the current situation in Russia, the war in the east and on the spiritual test of humanity RISU told the pastor of the Protestant church "New Life", Bishop Anatoly KALYUZHNY.

ROUGH TRANSLATION: - Already gone square, but the war goes on. When authorities often remain old footage. Also in the religious life is changing. What to expect next, or people have changed after each event and how you can influence the future course of events?

- Firstly, I see certain patterns that occur in society - I have nothing amazing, because processes are not political, but rather a spiritual background, as the war with Russia. Over time, the religious leaders are beginning to see it. But before all cities knelt repent in common prayer. Currently, there is a problem with refugees, there is a problem with fear in the hearts of the people, is the problem of debate as to whether the right to arms in their hands. For Protestants, it is a very controversial point is, difficult process of rethinking.

- In the context of discussions on the use of weapons and defense, believers were divided into two camps - those who support the power scenario of the conflict, and those who advocate only peaceful solution. Whatever could it mean?

- This is a very difficult question. I can not condemn any party. I have a mother in the church came from the fact that her 19-year-old son take the East. She was very nervous, because the child psychologically and spiritually ready for it. But at the same time there are people who are professionals and this striving. It is worth mentioning that there is no greater love than to die for your neighbor. Such people should not condemn, because they will protect our country. And of course, that the same was true of the area - not all in a moment took his concept as the role of the Church in society. Currently the difficult process of rethinking its place in the lives of religious leaders and groups. God reaches its goal of us is unique, it acts in a special way.

It was very interesting to watch the changes as the faithful are of different nationalities, including Russians. And those who were born in Ukraine and lived here long ago, it is still an order of magnitude more difficult to accept change. So, apparently, these processes in our countries are purely spiritual background. When dealing with the Russians, I was shocked when normal people started talking about our events and just lost control. This is a very serious spiritual problem, including Putin, when people are unable to think properly, it would seem, in this action. It is necessary to clearly define what is good and what is evil.

- What is trying to do? As a minister can help people?

- My vocation is as a bishop is to work with pastors in the East. Another area of work - a dialogue between Ukraine and Russia, talks with leaders of religious organizations. Visit us at the first meeting of Protestant leaders in Jerusalem, which clearly showed that the problem is not solved hurriedly. Positions were completely consistent. I am trying to find in people who have saved the adequacy and the ability to at least hear the other to build the dialogue. Typically, this is not the highest echelons of leadership, because there are very engaged people.

I do not want to accuse ministers of Russia, instead I want them to understand. The war is between the Baptists of the two countries as well as among other faiths. I did discover several interesting discoveries. After the Orange Revolution in 2004, the Protestants began very active, even when there taking part. Apparently, Putin understood this and saw a significant influence of the Church in society. However, we did not know that in fact was a department of the FSB to work with religious leaders. As I asked friends, I realized that almost all fsbshnyky came and asked the question - "what do you think of the Orange Revolution? And what is your attitude to it? "The situation now is that if they did not surrender, but today you can still serve freely and tomorrow - is not.

Another point - after our revolution in almost all churches were "cultural" removed from theaters, houses of culture. In the 90s it was a waking that all these places were occupied churches. Now there took place a particular sweep with a view to the church Protestants could influence people. And what happened to us on January 16 tsho year, this attempt enactment - it was tracing the Russian law that there has long been operational. Intelligence agencies of work, they not only zachystyly territory, but also create a legal framework. Thanks to her, they can tightly control the finances of the church and various other aspects including humanitarian aid.

- Can the opposition propaganda from Russia? How does it affect its inhabitants?

- At the moment propaganda remains in place, now every pastor with a congregation receives limited rights and opportunities "comfort zone" for the service. But as a pastor or minister begins to move beyond this artificial corridor he have problems. Today, talking to them candidly, I'm looking for people who can think and with whom you can build cooperation. I came to the conclusion that if I stayed in the square, at the risk of property to the church, the very church, I was willing to pay that price - and registration, and property, and all matter of life and even life itself. Instead of an absolute majority of spiritual leaders believe that they suffer, we need only go to the public sphere. "Go to the cross" church in the vast majority is not ready. However, there are occasions when a leader takes a radical position. Then he warned first, then either removed or replaced with another. So I understand the behavior of their leaders - they want to work comfortably and do not want to get out for spheres permitted to preserve service.

But remember: if John the Baptist was silent and "wise", it could still serve 30 years. Yet someone had to come and tell the truth. If you are a man and you are carrying a spiritual truth to the people, then you can not limit it to one area - only the liturgy or worship of God. Telling the truth is not only about God or about the person, and present the situation as it is and expose lies. It has been known addresses of Russian Baptists when they thanked Putin for the moral values ​​that he cherishes in the community - I think that this is the highest degree of blasphemy. We know how he lives. For the Church it must be unambiguous - there is morality, what values ​​it upholds? And turn a blind eye to what he was and supposedly protect society from sexual minorities - is wrong and the problem still vyzrivatyme. I am convinced that Russian society is born quite influential group of people who are not afraid to speak the truth to anyone.

Another piece of our communication with the Russians. Several years ago, we always heard that advocates Putin said on managed democracy in Russia, that it has certain features and shape. This naviyuvalos people some time to show that they are also Democrats, but other information. When I started talking about some democratic principles, then suddenly heard, it turns out that democracy - this is not a perfect form of social life. I wondered where it is spoken with one, two, three and faced with the fact that the Russian propaganda machine has more than half begins systematically inform people that where there is democracy - there is a lot of problems, there is a sick society. And so the government knows "something" that no doubt better for everyone. Due to the emergence of positive stories about Stalin, it becomes clear that the emphasis will dominate. One of the pastors said that the air began to get positive stories and movies objectives of dictatorial and authoritarian regimes.

- This push toward autocracy?

- This means that all of society is pushed to the fact that there will be a different system of government, it is the foundation of propaganda. Now comes complete reboot of consciousness and the subconscious through these mechanisms - I do not claim complete objectivity, I was unable to conduct a comprehensive study, but it is my subjective opinion after communication with Russian brothers in the last three months.

And if you look at the words of Merkel inadequacy of Putin, if you look at their ambitions - I am afraid that this war is already open and not the traditional way. It throughs Page of mankind, therefore, it will sound very loud - is not only the beginning of the end of Putin, and perhaps the beginning of the last of our human history. We believe that we are on the threshold of the last time and we believe that such a thing as the antichrist, taking the Church, the end of the world - not just words, and that certain things are very clearly stated in the Bible.

I would like to appeal to all believers - it is necessary that we do not just sympathize with the war, but saw nothing behind it. Because so blatantly ignore the generally accepted principles simply impossible for this are either mental or spiritual problems. I encourage to continue to pray, do not rush to hang on all labels, look at all of flattened spiritual eyes and perceive processes are not so primitive.

- As the conflict in the East - there are Protestant pastors and uncertain situation. Is there any contact with them?

- They are trying to be active there. For example, there is my friend Sergei shoal - a pastor of a small church. He was one of the first priests in Donetsk faithful gathered in prayer in the center of the tent. He was beaten, forced to leave the job, but he sent his family to safety still remains there. He currently serves many military hospitals, trying to do as you can. When he was arrested and tortured, the man who ran it was his former parishioner. So self-proclaimed mayor of Slavic Ponamarov ever went to church, and now he is one of the leaders in the NPT. When a person turns away from God came again to him, the demons make it real outpost. For me is not surprising that people who have moved away from the church, is the most aggressive against it.

Serving the East continues, I know the heroes of faith who are taken out hundreds of people every day risk. In the square, talking with many of them, I saw their indifference to Ukraine, they did not care what will power. However, during those two or three months I see a change of consciousness pastors, God achieves its goal in us. Because everything that happens, happens for the oligarchs or not people - it's all for the sake of the Church. It is a spiritual struggle, and we must be ready for it.

- How do you see the way out in the East? For, as the events, as well as the Armistice was.

- It's awful. When the warmth of hope that it all stops, the disaster occurred again - this grief again. One of my friends saw a curious man dream about these events. She nasnyvsya bear that tried their paws zahrabastyty something, like a poor Ukraine. On his neck was udavka and the more he climbed - the more it dragged on, rejecting it back. On the one hand, I would really like to have this stopped as soon as possible. I applaud what he did Poroshenko, maybe a little late, but I understand that if someone does not stop Putin, he stops himself. He can not allow Ukraine had open borders with Europe, so she got help from the West. This is the beginning of the end. He will do everything for the eastern region were long zone of instability.

There are many factors - and shale gas, and a complete, total, unique war. Because if Ukraine will get its gas - as it affect? So everything that makes Russia, sewn with white thread. It is desirable to both Europe and America more specifically said about his position. I believe that we are on the side of truth, because we solved the internal problems without alien intervention. However, I fear for Obama because, knowing his psychology, it is clear that this is not the kind of person who can go hard till the end. There are other problems: communicating with foreign experts, I see that they do not really want the collapse of Russia. Why? - Because Putin is somehow controlled processes inside. There's a large number of nuclear weapons, and if you happen to chaos, the unknown, in whose hands it will get - West fears it. He better see inappropriate Putin than total anarchy in Russia. So Europe will be affected, but not as hard as it could.

Western leaders fear China because it is growing very rapidly and is a serious threat to world domination. And if he suddenly be able to unite with Russia - will rise another very powerful and influential force to be extremely act in the world and nobody knows how it will behave. If you look at the whole situation - you can understand what is at stake.

I believe that this whole issue of bloodshed, war, lies only God can solve. Only He can give a blessing for Russia and Ukraine. I dream of that great awakening took place in Russia, rose to our consciousness - that's what I ask God every day. And with this faith we live every day, because now we have to look forward, with implications Revolution Square on their own shoulders. I believe that all these dramatic changes only help our country, raising it to a new spiritual level.