[discostu]

Which again does NOT mean the no fly list accomplishes anything.

Taken as a group there’s no proof those security measures have accomplished anything other than inconvenience a lot of people and shred the Bill of Rights. What stops terrorists is hard work by the cops, and sometimes luck. Treating the basic citizen as a criminal solves nothing.

I didn’t say anything about prejudice. The problem with the no fly list is that it’s functionally random. As someone else pointed out up thread, Ted Kennedy landed on the list. Anybody that buys a lot of one way tickets can land on the list.

The no fly list is quite simply police state presumption of guilt, it is at least as evil as any terrorist. It s vile, and people who support it are part of the problem, you’re surrendering MY freedom for your ILLUSION of safety.

[Jack Black]

Taken as a group there’s no proof those security measures have accomplished anything other than inconvenience a lot of people and shred the Bill of Rights. What stops terrorists is hard work by the cops, and sometimes luck. Treating the basic citizen as a criminal solves nothing.

Ipso facto proof. We had hijackings occur, we put in place heightened airline security and no fly lists, and we haven't had hijackings since.

If you look at the 39 foiled terrorist plots listed here a few things seem to show up in common:

• Islam remains the common ideology of most terrorists active today
• Islamic Spiritual leaders are also sometimes Jihad leaders.
• nearly all the terrorists are immigrants from Islamic countires.
• Almost all have connections with other terrorists
• Many travel overseas to facilitate terrorism

Meeting all these criteria seems to permit some extra attention gets paid to people.

I agree with the poster below that if you are going to have rights revoked the Gov. should be requried to tell you, tell you why, and let you appeal

But I don't agree that the same standards used in criminal trails can or should be used in dealing with terrorists, especially foreign born terrorists. It's to our eternal discredit that we have allowed all these people in to start with, and that we appear unable to kick them out now.

But to also handicap ourselves and say that we can't take any preventative steps around a imam with known terrorist associates, running a mosque that has radicalized it's members, who have left to go on jihad.... WELL the Constitution isn't a suicide pact.

I think the judge has made a reasonable decision. Citizen rights don't disappear because of war, but they can be limited. Rights of appeal are the ones least likely to be given up, as they are the last resort.

As the Wikipedia article on Kennedy_v._Mendoza-Martinez, a war time case, explains the court's decision

In other words, the court acknowledged the expanded powers of Congress during wartime, but also ruled that those wartime powers do not permit Congress to circumvent the measures of due process.[4]