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To: elhombrelibre
So, is a person like Bill Clinton, elected with a plurality, but not a majority of the votes, capable of representing their nation's interests? How?

Even someone elected with 60% of the vote cannot claim to be carrying out the wishes of all their countrymen. So what of that? Aren't they only 60% legitimate?

What we concede to the majority, much of the world concedes to the strong. We may not agree with the wisdom of their choice, but it is nevertheless their choice. They would rather have a strong ‘king’ than a weak prime minister, and they would rather have a little repression than mandatory homosexual instruction and islamification.

The press in Russia is far from being like North Korea. In fact, it is very much like the press in the U.S., with the vast majority of supporting propaganda being totally voluntary, from like-minded and adoring journalists. The vast majority of our media is nothing but the communication arm of the socialists. They don't need to be controlled. They just need to be fed. In fact, kick the fairness doctrine and a few more Democrat/media ideas up to speed and you'll have almost the same thing here. In fact, within 5 years, you would have exactly the same things.

The average Russian state of mind supports Putin, and supports cracking down on dissent. Like the standard German on the street in 1905, they personalize the power and glory of their leadership and their communal stature as a great nation; willing to trade individual liberty and dignity for the glory and dignity of the nation. Tell me, which is worse, trading individual freedom for national strength or an EBT card? You can argue that such rationale isn't truly in the national interest, but the same applies to the rationale of those who voted for Obama.

I'm not a fan of Putin or any authoritarian, but you make a huge mistake in not understanding the mindset of the typical Russian. If he has their support, it doesn't really matter how or why. One of the mind-boggling things about Stalinist Russia was the ability of Russians to take pride in the strength and power that Stalin brought to Russia, while simultaneously being crushed by that same state.

18 posted on 05/09/2014 5:58:18 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: SampleMan
Yes, we do allow the will of the majority to determine the national interest. And, as for Clinton, he achieved his elections legitimately, but without a majority. By our form of government Clinton was free to exercise the powers of the US Constitution during his elected terms. I'm never going to concede that a nation's interest in the long run is equally representative are a true reflection of a nation's needs when achieved by kings or dictators.

Carrying out the wishes of the entire nation and carrying out the national interest cannot be the same. No nation of any size will have 100% agreement. The key constraint should be the law and the support of the nation as determined in elections.

As for the press in Russia being like the US press, I don't know of any journalist shot and killed by the US government. If Putin were so popular and secure, he would not have to behave like a reactionary. He would not be in a de facto alliance with the mad mullahs in Tehran. Any credit you give Putin for opposing islamification should keep in mind how close Putin and his secret police are to the Iranian tyrants.

I believe the Russian masses are far more fickle than you think and would turn on him at the first chance they get. That's why he is such a reactionary. That's why they do not allow mass demonstrations. That's why the Putin press is constantly presenting Putin as some sort of demigod.

I don't want the homosexual agenda either. But the support for Putin based on this position seems to ignore the fact that Putin's not just opposing the gay agenda. Everything about the guy is cynical. I've no doubt that he's tailored that position the same way he and his father served the Soviet state as secret policemen and how he now has transitioned to an ultra-nationalist, like Milosvic did. They needed a new gig. If Putin were in the US, he could easily be a Democrat promoting the gay agenda as long as it got him power.

Finally, I would not ever be agreeable to achieving conservative ends through a dictator or phony president like Putin. The loss of your liberty doesn't usually achieve the goal promised and doesn't do anything but empower the tyrant. I'm reminded of how the Bolsheviks came to power and how other tyrants do it. First, they promise the goal if all power can be granted to them indefinitely. You have to be pretty naive to believe that's going to work. Accountability is gone. And if you give them power they'll, make everyone "equal" (or maybe everyone becomes a conservative Russian Orthodox Christian). As the party (or oligarchy, as it is in Putin's Russia) centralizes its power more and more liberty goes away, you don't see the end state promised. And the solution is always more power to the Soviets, more power to the Party, more power to the central committee, more power to one man. Putin was shaped and formed by that mindset and he's transparent. He hijacked Russia's transition from communism to democracy and exploited it for his own vanity.

19 posted on 05/10/2014 12:18:35 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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