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To: goldstategop
At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

If the Russian speaking, Russian orthodox church attending, ethnically Russian people of eastern Ukraine are fools enough to submit themselves to a mafia government in Moscow, why should we put ourselves at risk of the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place to save them from their own folly?

In effect, I must concede I am countenancing one man, one vote, one time which I oppose in places like Iraq or Afghanistan-oppose in the sense that I see no connection between pouring American blood and treasure into the sands of those countries and making America secure from terrorism of the pan-Islam movement to dominate the world. And that is the distinction: The acquisition by Russia of eastern Ukraine does not pose a threat to the security of the United States. I do not even believe there is a real historical parallel going back to the 1930s in the era of appeasement.

In sum, when a pan national movement such as communism when it was virulent and aggressive, fascism in the same mode, or Islamism, grab off a piece of turf even, by the consent of its occupants, I say we have to be Ronald Reagan like in our defense posture. But when one man, one vote, one time occurs without substantially increasing the threat to national security, I say we increase our defense forces, accumulate allies, and bide our time.


2 posted on 04/13/2014 1:21:05 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford

Exactly my view.

Our punishment of Russia hasn’t increased our influence or shown our deterrence.

We all knew how it was going to end... and you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

A Chicago Community Organizer was outmaneuvered by a KGB spy. They can keep telling themselves in Washington Moscow was taught a lesson.

The facts say different.


4 posted on 04/13/2014 1:29:48 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: nathanbedford

I see your point, but I doubt if Russia is willing to let these votes occur inside Russia where Russians are not the majority. It’s a tool they want to use to weaken Ukraine; it’s not a sincere concern for the poor Russian speakers.


11 posted on 04/13/2014 2:09:34 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: nathanbedford
At the risk of sounding (gasp!) Wilsonian, what's wrong with countenancing the self-determination of peoples?

The government offices of the Oblasts the Russians want to steal have been captured by Russian troops. What type of self determination does that allow? The Majority Ukrainian populations will be suppressed if not cleansed.

20 posted on 04/13/2014 9:28:14 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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